Mikeyy
Pearl Diver
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2006
- Messages
- 1,083
Don't encourage him. We don't know why the kids are screaming.
I want to learn how to implant a nucleus in a clam
- Thread starter kb2rocket
- Start date
P
Pearling Technologies
Guest
hmmm....perhaps if i had nanny cam.........
I must say that when we were living in Indonesia, we aways found the customs to be hell. Long lines, no AC and innefficient and underpaid customs officers.
Best cure were screaming kids! They'd rush us through the diplomatic line in a flash! I always threatened to pinch them to make them cry but never did......honest!
I must say that when we were living in Indonesia, we aways found the customs to be hell. Long lines, no AC and innefficient and underpaid customs officers.
Best cure were screaming kids! They'd rush us through the diplomatic line in a flash! I always threatened to pinch them to make them cry but never did......honest!
V
Valeria101
Guest
Any vegans in the house?
I'm inclined to say 'yes' ...
Why would evolution develop the capacity for 'pain' in an animal that can't do anything about it?
It seems logical that physiological signals should be matched to the type of response they can trigger. Why would a mollusk need a continuous 'fight or flight' signal for a sloooow defence mechanism like pearl-making?
On the other hand, it is quite clear that whatever we call 'pain' is totally dependent on the nervous system: shut down that and there's no pain (anesthetics), turn on the signal only and no real stimulus is needed anymore (nerve damage, memory of pain in missing limbs or organs... that sort of horrid thing).
I'd bet that even mollusks must be getting some information from the outside world to activate their defense mechanisms. Still, it is hard to imagine what kind of signal is that, since mollusks aren't built to do either fight or flight so no such reflex is necessary and not much use for a signal similar to pain. It sounds like pain would be as necessary to them while making pearls to defend themselves, as it is to humans on a dentist chair - i.e. not useful at all. We developed solutions for useless pain in a hundred years or so of scientific phar macy, mollusks had hundreds of millions of years of evolution to develop their response to the environment. What works, works...
Besides, we've also got a bunch of slow, long-term biological defense mechanisms, but they are not associated with continuous pain (scarring on some internal organs and tissues), thank goodness. Like pearl-making, there is too much of a good thing with those too... And this is as far as my imagination goes; it seems to me that this sort of comparison is interesting only in the context we've got here (my colleague shrugged only).
Slraep said:
I'm inclined to say 'yes' ...
Why would evolution develop the capacity for 'pain' in an animal that can't do anything about it?
It seems logical that physiological signals should be matched to the type of response they can trigger. Why would a mollusk need a continuous 'fight or flight' signal for a sloooow defence mechanism like pearl-making?
On the other hand, it is quite clear that whatever we call 'pain' is totally dependent on the nervous system: shut down that and there's no pain (anesthetics), turn on the signal only and no real stimulus is needed anymore (nerve damage, memory of pain in missing limbs or organs... that sort of horrid thing).
I'd bet that even mollusks must be getting some information from the outside world to activate their defense mechanisms. Still, it is hard to imagine what kind of signal is that, since mollusks aren't built to do either fight or flight so no such reflex is necessary and not much use for a signal similar to pain. It sounds like pain would be as necessary to them while making pearls to defend themselves, as it is to humans on a dentist chair - i.e. not useful at all. We developed solutions for useless pain in a hundred years or so of scientific phar macy, mollusks had hundreds of millions of years of evolution to develop their response to the environment. What works, works...
Besides, we've also got a bunch of slow, long-term biological defense mechanisms, but they are not associated with continuous pain (scarring on some internal organs and tissues), thank goodness. Like pearl-making, there is too much of a good thing with those too... And this is as far as my imagination goes; it seems to me that this sort of comparison is interesting only in the context we've got here (my colleague shrugged only).
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Mikeyy
Pearl Diver
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2006
- Messages
- 1,083
When life serves up lemons make lemonade.hmmm....perhaps if i had nanny cam.........
I must say that when we were living in Indonesia, we aways found the customs to be hell. Long lines, no AC and innefficient and underpaid customs officers.
Best cure were screaming kids! They'd rush us through the diplomatic line in a flash! I always threatened to pinch them to make them cry but never did......honest!
C
CortezPearls
Guest
Hehe. Found the "No Brain - Politicians" connection you did... I loved it!
When I was studying "Marine Invertebrates II" I think someone asked the same question regarding pain, someone else debated about how "primitive organisms" are not so...it was a good class debate:
1) Primitive Organisms are called that way because they originated very early in the Evolutionary tree. We are "Modern" because our branch (Primates) originated quite recently (Primates some 85 to 95 million years ago, Mollusks some 4,500 million years ago). But these "primitive creatures" are indeed marvelous feats of natural engineering: perfectly adapted to their surroundings.
In the case of Invertebrates that are capable of of "seeing" in polarized light or parts of the light spectrum we don't...they have both the hardware and software to do so because it is -or was- useful to their existence. We (Humans) cannot see in Infrared or UV spectrums because we don't need to (not useful for monkeys).
The best part is the ending because we learned about Stress and...
2) Mucus. Stressed mollusks produce massive amounts of mucus after being harmed or when "suffering" (they don't, ok?). They can't run nor hide and: in the Ocean nobody can hear your screams (sounds like a horror movie line, doesn't it? It's an Ocean out there!!!). So the little things pucker up, and do the next best thing: secrete loads of nice mucus. So once more a similarity between a "primitive creature" and a "highly evolved creature" (a politician): they lube it all up and turn the place into one ugly mess.
When I was studying "Marine Invertebrates II" I think someone asked the same question regarding pain, someone else debated about how "primitive organisms" are not so...it was a good class debate:
1) Primitive Organisms are called that way because they originated very early in the Evolutionary tree. We are "Modern" because our branch (Primates) originated quite recently (Primates some 85 to 95 million years ago, Mollusks some 4,500 million years ago). But these "primitive creatures" are indeed marvelous feats of natural engineering: perfectly adapted to their surroundings.
In the case of Invertebrates that are capable of of "seeing" in polarized light or parts of the light spectrum we don't...they have both the hardware and software to do so because it is -or was- useful to their existence. We (Humans) cannot see in Infrared or UV spectrums because we don't need to (not useful for monkeys).
The best part is the ending because we learned about Stress and...
2) Mucus. Stressed mollusks produce massive amounts of mucus after being harmed or when "suffering" (they don't, ok?). They can't run nor hide and: in the Ocean nobody can hear your screams (sounds like a horror movie line, doesn't it? It's an Ocean out there!!!). So the little things pucker up, and do the next best thing: secrete loads of nice mucus. So once more a similarity between a "primitive creature" and a "highly evolved creature" (a politician): they lube it all up and turn the place into one ugly mess.
knotty panda
Pearl Knotting & Wire Expert
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2007
- Messages
- 1,766
Oh thanks! Take all the romance out of it! BTW, nice to see you again. How's the harvest coming? We're all looking forward to pics.
C
CortezPearls
Guest
Any vegans in the house?
I'm inclined to say 'yes' ...
Why would evolution develop the capacity for 'pain' in an animal that can't do anything about it?
It seems logical that physiological signals should be matched to the type of response they can trigger. Why would a mollusk need a continuous 'fight or flight' signal for a sloooow defence mechanism like pearl-making?
On the other hand, it is quite clear that whatever we call 'pain' is totally dependent on the nervous system: shut down that and there's no pain (anesthetics), turn on the signal only and no real stimulus is needed anymore (nerve damage, memory of pain in missing limbs or organs... that sort of horrid thing).
I'd bet that even mollusks must be getting some information from the outside world to activate their defense mechanisms. Still, it is hard to imagine what kind of signal is that, since mollusks aren't built to do either fight or flight so no such reflex is necessary and not much use for a signal similar to pain. It sounds like pain would be as necessary to them while making pearls to defend themselves, as it is to humans on a dentist chair - i.e. not useful at all. We developed solutions for useless pain in a hundred years or so of scientific phar macy, mollusks had hundreds of millions of years of evolution to develop their response to the environment. What works, works...
Besides, we've also got a bunch of slow, long-term biological defense mechanisms, but they are not associated with continuous pain (scarring on some internal organs and tissues), thank goodness. Like pearl-making, there is too much of a good thing with those too... And this is as far as my imagination goes; it seems to me that this sort of comparison is interesting only in the context we've got here (my colleague shrugged only).
I could not have said it any better: you need the "hardware" (the brain, pain hormones, nervous system) to run the "software" (Program: PAIN. An application developed to make you run/flee/hide/attack the stimulus that causes DAMAGE to your body). Even if you had a more advanced Brain (such as with mammals, but excluding Politicians) your "software" can be "unistalled" or not installed at all...we all use computers here (you could not write nor read nor interact with others on this forum if you did not) but we all use different program applications depending on our NEEDS...I certainly do not have a "Election Polls" app on my PC, but maybe someone has a "Jewelry Designing" program or Photo editing software on their PC. You get the idea.
C
CortezPearls
Guest
Harvest Officially begins: TOMORROW. As you can Imagine: I am Sleepless in Guaymas (Guaymas: Pearl Capital of North and South America
). Been more than bussy... it is about to become midnight here and it's the only moment I have: we've been very busy thanks to ----DRUM ROLL PLEASE--- some Idiotic new laws passed by -you've guessed it!!!- politicians.We're doing just like our oysters have taught us: pucker up and secrete mucus...lots of mucus. But, I am a higher being am I not? So, I'm just waiting for my chance...
Hopefully I'll place some photos next week on a thread of its own. Keep posted!
La Contessa
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jun 23, 2008
- Messages
- 120
I had to bring attention to the Florida mollusk situation.
On the news several months ago near the Suwanee River at the Gulf.
"While enjoying some steamed clams at Dave's Last Resort & Raw Bar with his wife, Leslie, George Brock suddenly bit down on something hard...which was a purple pearl. It's safe to say that the couple didn't expect anything from their $10 investment other than fresh seafood. Turns out they got much more than that: A gemologist's appraisal pegged the pearl's value at $25,000..."
On the news several months ago near the Suwanee River at the Gulf.
"While enjoying some steamed clams at Dave's Last Resort & Raw Bar with his wife, Leslie, George Brock suddenly bit down on something hard...which was a purple pearl. It's safe to say that the couple didn't expect anything from their $10 investment other than fresh seafood. Turns out they got much more than that: A gemologist's appraisal pegged the pearl's value at $25,000..."
jshepherd
Pearl Paradise
- Joined
- Jun 22, 2004
- Messages
- 6,300
We discussed that pearl here once.
https://www.pearl-guide.com/forum/o...rple-pearl-clam-i-eating-quahog-thread-8.html
It is amazing to me how someone would really value the pearl at $25,000 instead of saying "I really don't know", which would be the truthful, ethical thing to do.
https://www.pearl-guide.com/forum/o...rple-pearl-clam-i-eating-quahog-thread-8.html
It is amazing to me how someone would really value the pearl at $25,000 instead of saying "I really don't know", which would be the truthful, ethical thing to do.
- Joined
- Jun 11, 2004
- Messages
- 176
If that pearl was boiled it is worth nothing. If it is raw, depending on the size and color it could be worth up to a few hundred- if it is purple and over 8-9mm
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