I want to learn how to implant a nucleus in a clam

[Raisondetre]

To be honest, I think a more worthwhile research project is to learn to nucleate with mantle only in traditionally bead-nucleated types. I'm sure the molluscs would be much more comfortable this way. The donor tissue would still be from a dead mollusc though. But I don't really see the point of replying to this thread any further given that the poster is not open to constructive feedback.

 

[kb2rocket]

To be honest, I think a more worthwhile research project is to learn to nucleate with mantle only in traditionally bead-nucleated types. I'm sure the molluscs would be much more comfortable this way.

this is actualy a very good point it wont net me the end results I seek but from a beginers stand point it is a more logical way to start
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the first part of this large undertaking will be to just keep one of these animals healthy in a large aquarium. way before I become a surgen I must be a fabracator chemist and understand food requirments lighting substraight material behavior water temp. and depth and much more
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I do have local waters near by but the salinity is ever changing
and thats not a good thing
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when I finaly attempt the implants I will post ALL the results good or bad
thank you all for your input I would really like to see those u tube video's but I am using a webtv web browser and its not compatable
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I may as well tell you what mollusk I plan on using but I fear your responces be kind
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its the quahog clam
I work with the man that found a purple pearl in his steamed clams that made national news
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and I became interested in learning all I could about pearls I understand this is not a true pearl by definition but it is interesting so now you know what I ment when I said the mollusks (CLAMS) I buy will end up in a resturant if I dont buy them either way they are doomed
so thats the Idea cultured quahog pearls I only have one secret left LOL I hope I can keep it
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what are they worth? no one really knows yet but I am pretty sure no one is trying to get clutured pearls from them its way easyer to just sell them as food
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ok blast away I can take it
P.S. please do not move this thread to the "other pearl section" this thread is about nucleus implants Im not ready to join the purple pearl hoopla just yet
Thanks

 

[salem]

Now you have me thinking...Beef Stroganoff....mmmmmm...makes me hungry.

 

[GemGeek]

I like melo-melo and conch pearls, but I am not wild about the clam pearls. The colors just don't do much for me, but I'm happy for the luck of the people who found them. I'm interested to see what your experiment yields.

Good Luck

 

[kb2rocket]

yes they are not that great looking in my opinion either but they are easy to obtain and if I wanted to expand our local waters will support them

 

[jshepherd]

You are working with the man that found the purple pearl in the plate of steamed clams? Does he know that the $25,000 valuation is bogus yet?

Matlins was quoted in another article with a quotation in the $1,000 to $1,500 range. I guess that is possible. But I would consider that possible high retail.

Now I think we should address the issue of molluscs and pain. This is a subject that I debate about and explain to a lot of people as I work closely with several animal rescue groups around the LA area.

Bivalve molluscs are sensitive to some things. They are sensitive to light, for example. This is because they have what is known as a simple nervous system. This is composed of ganglions that are in within their foot.

Ganglions are tissue masses that connect different neurological parts of living beings. But the ganglions in bivalve molluscs lack the sensory cells for chemical and mechanical sensation.

Basically, any reaction a mollusc has to anything in its environment is reflex. Molluscs have no central nervous system. They have no brain. They can feel no pain. They cannot be happy. They cannot be sad. They have no consciousness of their own existence, and they do not know when they die.

By grafting or nucleating a mollucs a pearl farmer is causing a reflex reaction within the shell. Is it damaging to the shell? Of course it is. But is it causing pain? No.

 

[kb2rocket]

Mr.Sheperd I hope you are correct inflicting pain is not something I enjoy so this is great news for me and the clams
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also today I found a clam farmer that is willing to care for the seeded clams once I learn how to nucleate them
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today this project just got 50% easyer for me
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now the quest for training
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about the pearl that was found I am not involved with that transaction in any way . we talk about it but thats all I cannot share any details I dont want to mess anything up or get anyone mad at me

 

[Slraep]

About a hundred or so years ago, dogs were used for horrible experiments by a famous surgeon/scientist(gotta remember his name)with the declaration that they did not feel pain.

Only a couple of years ago, it was thought that shellfish like prawns, lobsters and crabs felt no pain, even when dropped into boiling water.

I don't need to mention that the info in my first paragraph has been disproved, but late last year, Prof. Robert Elwood, an expert in animal behaviour who led a study on shellfish now published in New Science magazine, said a prawn's reaction was 'consistent with an interpretation of pain experience'. He also asks, "Do crabs not have vision because they lack the visual centres of humans?'

So saying that "NO", molluscs absolutely do not feel pain because they do not have anything that resembles a vertebrate's brain is not exactly true. How far down the evolutionary scale will we eventually end up going after previous "it feels no pain" declarations get disproved? Anyway, bivalves are next on the list.

Slraep

 

[Caitlin]

You will be the first ever to culture in a clam.

Let me add one thing. I read somewhere (and I read everything I can find on quahog pearls), that they have a slick but brittle crust and are not solid non-nacreous material inside, but some kind of gummy stuff. this is why people say don't let the shell get pierced by the prongs in the jewelry. It is also why at least one person put his clam pearl in a bottle. They are pretty, but it is hard to make good, long lasting jewelry with them. The large ones that got all the hype were set in a brooch but it doesn't have prongs holding it in.

I am not sure the effort will be worth the work. There has to be a reason (beside the non-nacreous results) why no one has tried culturing in clams.......

Did you know that there are freshwater mussels in America that have nacreous purple pearls? I mean iridescent PURPLE (see below.) That shell color s the color of their pearls-not the lavender greeny gold we see in Chinese FW pearls. Mussels thrive in indoor tanks or outdoor tanks.

They (mollusks) may not have brains and nervous systems, but they have a kind of mussel consciousness group mind. Did you know they sing together? They do it with their shells, since they don't have throats either...........They can sound happy or sad. Seriously.

 

[Slraep]

and I became interested in learning all I could about pearls I understand this is not a true pearl by definition but it is interesting so now you know what I ment when I said the mollusks (CLAMS) I buy will end up in a resturant if I dont buy them either way they are doomed

No they are not doomed. I don't think you realize that for every quahog you eat or buy for "hobby" use, it will be replaced by another one. If you don't eat it or "hobby" experiment on it, there will be one less demand for a commercial/wild quahog.

That's why no one should buy a lobster to free it. It will just be replaced. The best is not to buy it---the demand will dwindle.

Everyone check out these supermarket renegades. Who say's shellfish have no brain? Prison break!

http://www.itchmo.com/lobsters-escape-from-german-supermarket-3611

Slraep

 

[Slraep]

They (mollusks) may not have brains and nervous systems, but they have a kind of mussel consciousness group mind. Did you know they sing together? They do it with their shells, since they don't have throats either...........They can sound happy or sad. Seriously.

I spend part of the year on the beaches of Prince Edward Island. There use to be shellfish galore there. I have heard the singing Caitlin is writing about! Yes, they do it with their shells! Yes, they are like the "Borg"! Experiments are being done to discover the chemicals they release to communicate with each other.

It is one of the greatest pleasures on earth to walk in between vast mussel beds and "listen" to them. I'm serious too.

 

[jshepherd]

They (mollusks) may not have brains and nervous systems, but they have a kind of mussel consciousness group mind. Did you know they sing together? They do it with their shells, since they don't have throats either...........They can sound happy or sad. Seriously.

Singing together or grouping in specific areas can pretty easily be explained by reflex reaction to the same outside stimulants. Being happy or sad is an emotion. Emotions are a cognitive process. Without a brain there can be no cognitive process.

The anatomy of a mollusc is not in question. They do not have a central nervous system and they do not have a brain. Sure one could argue that they have a soul just like trees and flowers. That still does not mean they feel any pain or fear; both of these are unpleasant emotional experiences.

 

[Caitlin]

I love those pictures of mussel beds. Those are mylitus edulis? (sp?)

We have a thread or two featuring the pearls from similar sea mussels. They are very blue. There was some kind of dis-ease among those mussels and an extraordinery number of them produced tiny blister and/or loose pearls.

 

[kb2rocket]

I chose the quahog because it is very easy to come by where I live
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today I ate a bunch of animals 2 eggs ham and a burger and I never felt bad about it till now I guess I have issues to deal with
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mounting these pearls I guess will have to be some type of clamp cage or container if they are that brittle
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ok Ive run out of things to say time to plot the next step

 

[Caitlin]

They can sound happy or sad.

I did not say they WERE happy or sad, I said they can sound that way. Maybe they are little microphones transmitting the feelings of something else, maybe not, but I can understand why they are anthropomorphisized as living in "beds" and "singing", filtering away, and sometimes producing pearls.......bezoars........I find myself "loving" these little guys........

 

[Slraep]

The anatomy of a mollusc is not in question. They do not have a central nervous system and they do not have a brain. Sure one could argue that they have a soul just like trees and flowers. That still does not mean they feel any pain or fear; both of these are unpleasant emotional experiences.

So Jeremy, what do you think of "Do crabs not have vision because they lack the visual centres of humans?"? Because It can easily be modified to "Do bivalves not feel pain because they lack the brain of a vertebrate?" Obviously the answer to the first question is NO.

Slraep

 

[jshepherd]

Unless one were to come up with a new definition of pain, no. They do not feel pain. It is impossible to feel pain if there is no cognitive ability. Can there be a reaction to tissue damage? Of course. Every living thing whether animal or plant has a reaction to damage. This is not the same as pain.
Pain is just the wrong word, especially because it elicits emotion from humans who really do feel pain.

 

[Slraep]

I love those pictures of mussel beds. Those are mylitus edulis? (sp?)

Yes, they are your common blue(eatin' type) mussel. Almost all the blue mussels in PEI available for eating are farmed. People complain about grit in the wild ones. I have to say that wild bivalve populations around the island are getting scarce due to(what else)over harvesting. I will never show people I do not know to be ecologically minded the location of certain still thriving beds(that includes clams too).

The beauties below are held by my husband who this year discovered a thriving bed of big clams(he put them back!). You have to dive a good way from shore in some deep water. It has to be a nice day because the water is freezing otherwise. You need a snorkel and shovel/rake too. We don't like disturbing the beds but I wanted a pic. There aren't many of these cuties left around the island.

 

[kb2rocket]

I find my self pondering "happy as a clam" and "The world is my oyster"

 

[Slraep]

Pain is just the wrong word, especially because it elicits emotion from humans who really do feel pain.

Yeah but that's the thing---they cannot feel our pain because they have no central nervous system and brain, but perhaps we cannot feel theirs because we don't have whatever it is they have.

You know, SF writers love to exploit stories like extraterrestrials who are built totally different from us, using humans as experiment fodder because they are sure we do not feel pain. After all we don't have a "fazoodle" that's connected to a "greemie".

Slraep