I want to learn how to implant a nucleus in a clam

[kb2rocket]

I cant travel to learn this skill (responsibilitys) but would it be possible to learn from a book or DVD? I completely understand that this skill boarders on art and take years to perfect. (a journey of a thousand miles starts with the first step)
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is any info available ?
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question once the nucleus and mantle tissue is inserted wouldnt it be a good Idea to put a stitch on the incsission to keep the animal from rejecting the nucleus?
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I have lots of questions but this is good for now thanks?

 

[knotty panda]

Forgive me for being blunt, but it sounds like you're giving lip service to the extraordinary expertise required to provide a clean environment (to my knowledge, no waters in Florida are conducive to mullosk cultivation), the surgical skills required for nucleation, the monetary investment required which will yield no return for years, and the general day-to-day care for the little critters which has to take a toll (get it? atoll?). Still, if you're interested, go two states north to Tennessee and spend a little time at Birdsong. If you're serious about this, a weekend spent doing a reality check will be time well spent.

 

[kb2rocket]

it seems that the people that graft fresh water mussels may be my closest help I would have to call and talk to them I dont want the tourist type resort visit I am looking to learn
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my motivation has nothing to do with profit
thank for your suggestion
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heres another random question what is done if anything to prevent the animal from feeling extreme pain during this operation?

 

[GemGeek]

They don't do anything for pain, but I have seen antiseptic used. It's nice that a thing like mollusk pain matters to you.

 

[Slraep]

heres another random question what is done if anything to prevent the animal from feeling extreme pain during this operation?

Hi kb2rocket,

Considering a lot of molluscs die after nucleation, the answer certainly seems so, or, for people who don't want to admit other creatures besides themselves feel pain, the molluscs seem to at least feel extreme discomfort. I've read that camphor can be used as an anestethic but I don't know how, when, where and on which ones.

If you are worried about inflicting pain, why do you want to learn how to learn nucleus implantation? I think you have cultivate some non-sensitivity first.

Slraep

 

[kb2rocket]

Hi kb2rocket,

Considering a lot of molluscs die after nucleation, the answer certainly seems so, or, for people who don't want to admit other creatures besides themselves feel pain, the molluscs seem to at least feel extreme discomfort. I've read that camphor can be used as an anestethic but I don't know how, when, where and on which ones.

If you are worried about inflicting pain, why do you want to learn how to learn nucleus implantation? I think you have cultivate some non-sensitivity first.

Slraep

it may be shellfish (PUN) but my desire to try out my ideas slightly wins over my compassion for all living things
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this compassion is a strength not a weakness I will be contacting various vets and and animal professionals to see how this can be done and if I can find a way to lessen the trauma to the mollusk then I am sure more of them will pull through
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as I stated my motivation is not profit and the number animals involved will be exstremely low compared to a pearl farm . I will start my learning by disecting dead mollusks until I am confident enough to risk a live animal
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if all goes well the end result in about 7 years will be a very different pearl.

 

[Slraep]

this compassion is a strength not a weakness I will be contacting various vets and and animal professionals to see how this can be done and if I can find a way to lessen the trauma to the mollusk then I am sure more of them will pull through

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I agree that compassion not a weakness, and that's why normally it should win out against needless pain infliction.

I think that it has been well researched already---the part about lessening the trauma of nucleation. Every farmer is interested in having as many molluscs as possible survive. It's not just a botched "operation" that can kill the mollusc. Even if the "operation" is a perfect success technically, the mollusc can still die of shock, infection and other things. And honestly, I think you will find a regular vet useless for any info on bivalves, as their makeup is very alien as compared to mammals and birds. You probably should speak to a marine biologist who's specialty is molluscs.

Just want to mention that pearl farmers have to nucleate a lot of stock in order to get some gem quality pearls. I think it is typically 3% of their yield. I don't want to discourage you in any way but if you are thinking of nucleating a dozen or so bivalves and getting a dozen or so perfect pearls in seven years, it might just be wishful thinking.

Anyway, nucleation is a very interesting subject and I wish some of the experts here could add some more info to this thread.

Slraep

 

[knotty panda]

I dont want the tourist type resort visit I am looking to learn

The Tennessee pearl farms are pearl farms first and educational facilities second. If you want to talk to a freshwater farmer without leaving your current location, that's the closest thing you're going to find.

 

[kb2rocket]

some VERY good points have been raised like aprox. 5% will develop quality pearls. it appears that at some point you just have to wait and see.
I mean you can nucleate them and some will die and they can be removed and other mollusks can be nucleated to take their place but once all the space I have is full of live nucleated animals then they all can be monitored to see if any have rejected their nucleus and even though I understand that the ones that have may may still produce a odd shaped pearl by virtue of the inserted mantal tissue they would also be rejected and replaced with a new nucleated mollusk until ALL the spots in my mini farm are filled with Live nucleated non rejecting mollusks
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THEN out of these what can be done to insure a pearl?
these remaining live non rejecting mollusks would the output still be 5% or are we talking 5% of all the mollusks that were operated on?
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I guess at this point my job would be to just maintain their health and welfare until harvest
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and wait and see. in 5 years or so
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in my case these animals will not be subjected to local waters they will be in tanks where I will control and monitor everything they will have a very pampered life
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so you can see that this attempt at mini pearl farming is hobby based not business based
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their are secrets about what I am trying to do like what mollusk am I attempting to use and what very different method am I trying
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both of these secrets would not be cost effective for a normal farm and would put them out of business but in my case the goal is to continue until I produce 22 of these special pearls and then stop! never to produce anymore these one of a kind pearls will be put into some type of jewelery and kept in my family
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I understand these are lofty goals but I dont see why it couldnt be done I just need to learn and stay with it
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any rich person can buy art for their family to me it would mean so much more to make art for my family

 

[Slraep]

would the output still be 5% or are we talking 5% of all the mollusks that were operated on?

Actually it's more like 1(0.8?)-5%, depending on the mollusc.

It would still be 1% of the molluscs that have been operated on. So you see how the odds are against a gem quality pearl if you have only a few molluscs. For example, you'd have to nucleate at least a thousand Tahitian pearly oysters to MAYBE get eight gem quality pearls. Sure, you'll get a variety of pearl qualities in between, but those are the odds for gem. Your chances of getting a gem quality pearl from a dozen pets is going to be mostly sheer luck and prayer.

I'm copying the paragraph below from some notes I have and I don't remember the source. If someone can tell me that would be great.

"the mortality rate: out of 1,000, half the nucleated Pinctada fucata (Akoyas) in an average Japanese farm will die during the culturing period. Out of 1,000 Pinctada margaritafera (Tahitian black pearls) 440 will die during the culturing period and 240 will reject the nucleus. The number of gem quality pearls from surviving Akoyas is 50; and only eight gem quality Tahitians are produced from the initial 1,000 oysters."

Slraep

 

[Slraep]

in my case these animals will not be subjected to local waters they will be in tanks where I will control and monitor everything they will have a very pampered life.

Seriously, I don't think a pampered life for a mollusc includes an "operation", sticking a fairly big bead into it and hoping it survives.

Slraep

 

[kb2rocket]

Seriously, I don't think a pampered life for a mollusc includes an "operation", sticking a fairly big bead into it and hoping it survives.

Slraep

I couldnt agree more
the operation is not a good thing for the mollusk what I ment by a pampered life was if the animal survived it would live out the rest of its life in a tank free of preditors with me monitoring and caring for its every need
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I wonder if it would matter to any consumer that so many animals died just to make that one pearl on their ring?
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anyways I have been talking with a specialist at the florida oceanagraphic soc. and I think he will be able to help me understand the care and feeding of this type of mollusk
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I have also been studing diagrams of its attatomy and I have read thousands of pages on pearl farming but most importantly by reading so many articals I have almost a complete proceedure for seeding
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the first step is to construct tanks with recirculating flow this will allow nutrients to circulate and also sperm from one tank to effect the animals in a different tank and a submerged screen at the pump sump to collect the spat to be collected and placed in a nursury tank
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truly a lot of work and time for something that looks like a jelly bean
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[Raisondetre]

Somehow, trying to be humane in nucleating molluscs as a hobby doesn't sit well with me. Tell it like it is.

I don't do experiments on animals (which I have) and pretend that it is totally humane even though measures are taken to make sure they are comfortable. We inbreed rats to get the most consistent genetic traits and kill them at a specified time after the subject of interest is obtained. But it has to be done for medical research. It's not a hobby. I cannot imagine doing it for fun.

I admit I like pearls and I am fully aware of how it hurts the molluscs with the high mortality rate. I will also admit that I am selfish.

I guess my issue is that as a hobbyist, no matter how much research you do, without appropriate training (which requires practice, practice and more practice) your mortality rate will likely be higher than commercial perliculture. Just because the numbers are smaller doesn't mean the percentages are.

 

[kb2rocket]

no matter what route I take their will be a learning curve and these mollusks would be sold and die even if I did nothing if it were not for experiments the cultured pearl would not exsist at all
. I sure feel lucky that I do not have to make you comfortable before I am allowed to continue
and today I contacted a very nice person in the pearl biz willing to sell me the tools I need and help with directions and methods on implants
and this weekend I am meeting a mollusk farmer to talk about the animals needs to stay healthy in a aquarium system
. who knows maybe in home pearl farming will become a trend
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my original post was to ask for help on info on nucleation and I still welcome input on this but I sence that the experts in this field are not on this forum or they are not willing to share in either case I am finding the information almost faster than I can absorb it .so I am going to stop posting for a while and start making things happen thank you all for your positive comments and encouragment I wish you all well. I will keep you posted on my progress
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[pattye]

Hi kb2rocket,

You are correct that the folks on this forum generally have no experience in nucleation, and only a very few have ever seen it done. Even the few people who work on pearl farms are busy right now and not available on the forum. My sense is that there is almost an art to nucleation and each farm has specialist that handle it. I have been posting here for several years, and feel confident saying that no one is withholding information from you.

I do think you are sincere in what you want to do, and it is a gigantic undertaking, but please continue to let us know how it is going.

Wishing you success,

pattye
so many pearls, so little time

 

[Caitlin]

I sence that the experts in this field are not on this forum or they are not willing to share

Hi K2B
You post two days ago and have already concluded that 1. there are no experts on nucleation here and/or 2. these experts don't want to teach you because they haven't come rushing to answer your posts.

Pardon me, but that is assuming a lot. We have a lot of experts in nucleating on this forum. We have experts in sea mollusks ans at least one advanced student in nucleating fw mussels. It is up to you to find them, read their posts and then ask questions, don't you agree?

 

[Slraep]

......and these mollusks would be sold and die even if I did nothing if it were not for experiments the cultured pearl would not exsist at all

Yeah, and if nothing were done about commercial cows, they would just breed and breed and eventually die of starvation for lack of pastureland. So we'd better kill and eat them. Beef Stroganoff would have never existed otherwise. Duh.

Sheesh, I am really, really regretting that I answered this thread. Bad typing fingers! Bad! Bad!

Slraep

 

[jshepherd]

There is a link somewhere on this forum to a very comprehensive manual on pearl farming. I think it was originally posted by the master-fabricator Zeide Erskine. I just looked, but I cannot seem to find it. I am sure someone else will.

This video on Youtube shows the process of nucleating akoya shells. This is not something I would suggest anyone 'try' as it will be a complete waste of time. This takes years of hands-on practice to perfect.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmC_kxvS334
This video on Youtube shows the process of nucleating freshwater shells. Freshwater mussel grafting is a much easier operation and most technicians can master it in about a week.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uXeSb7i5X0

In order to learn how to nucleate you will have to learn about the anatomy of the shell you plan to work on, and you will need someone to show you exactly how it is done. It is really not a simple matter and not one you are going to be able to learn from a book.

 

[Caitlin]

I found the pearl culturing article and made it a sticky in the "pearl book s and resources" thread.

 

[knotty panda]

Yeah, and if nothing were done about commercial cows, they would just breed and breed and eventually die of starvation for lack of pastureland. So we'd better kill and eat them. Beef Stroganoff would have never existed otherwise. Duh.

Sheesh, I am really, really regretting that I answered this thread. Bad typing fingers! Bad! Bad!

Slraep

You go girl! And to you molluscs who are about to have your gonads experimented on painlessly, we are so sorry. Slraep, you gave me the courage to say what I've wanted to say from the beginning ... some of us LIKE rejection by-products and want to keep them around as along as they will have us.