Yokota Pearls

[Jeweljunke]

hahaha Pearlescence, what is a 'chav' and what is a 'sprog'. And what is a 'kerry katona'. I did a fast google and saw some photos of her, seems classless, but I never heard of her. If she is some type of 'reality' star, it would be no wonder I never heard of her. I REFUSE to watch any type of reality show. The one exception I make is Survivor each year, if that is even a 'reality' show. It seems more like a game show to me.

 

[pearlescence]

Translation (two nations separated by a common language!)
chav - stereotype and pejorative epithet commonly used, chiefly in the United Kingdom.[1] The stereotype was created in the British mass media to refer to working class youth subculture in England. The stereotype of a Chav includes wearing branded designer sportswearStereotypical attire might be accompanied by some form of gold jewellery otherwise termed 'bling'. Person with no taste
sprog - child
kerry katona - former member of a fairly unsuccessful girl band now a reality start with a new disasterous boyfriend every few weeks. Makes her money by being papped (photographed by paperazzi in set up situations)Car Crash life

 

[Amanda]

Good summary, Wendy!

 

[pearlescence]

If AA pearls pass the criteria for a hanadama certificate they pass and get the certificate. Clearly the certificate does not mean what we suppose it means but we should look to blame the criteria. not the pearls or the seller
surely

 

[Jeweljunke]

Catilin. I agree with Pearlescense, a Hanadama cert has its own specifications, and if a strand is sent for cert and passes, it is Hanadama per the Japan's Pearl Science Laboratory, whether it be AA or AAA. All he is saying is that it is not necessary to send an AAA strand to the lab, but if the customer wants it, he will do it. As to the pearl history, he was not around when all the history happened. He probably copied the information from the JPEA (Japan Pearl Exporters Association) for his website. The JPEA is THE place in Japan for info on akoyas. Is it his job to vet the JPEA for accuracy? Maybe. But most business people, in whatever industry, go with the standards of whatever trade they are in and use that information. I see nothing unethical in Mr. Yokota's practices. I do see POV differences and cultural differences. And I don't think he muddies the Hanadama method. I think the lab's methods do that all by themselves.

I really thought this thread was done, and that we all agreed to disagree.

 

[Caitlin]

I wanted to refute that there were special grades for hanadamas- there are not. You can get a AA certified, apparently, but that does not fit the definition of hanadama I have used for years.

If I know about the true history of cultured pearls, why doesn't a seller who specializes in them know?

Notice. I am not criticizing his AAA and AA pearls at all, they appear to me of top quality even though priced higher than about anyone but MIkimotos; I am criticizing his version of the facts on his info pages, esp the way he uses hanadama.

I wish I had read them closely before posting and that this post was my first on the subject. It would have been my last as well, though reading them did not change anything I have said earlier. There is no special subgrading for hanadamas, there is just the standard Miki grading. Take a look at many other websites, they use the same standard. AAA can have 5% blemishes. AA can have from 6% blemishes to 25% blemishes. They can also have a lesser luster, so he may be sending the top % of AA with great luster for hanadama cert.

When it came time to write this, I saw a statement I couldn't find the url for later. He says "[FONT=&quot]But the thicker the nacre, the more dull the luster[/FONT]", which seems absurd to me. If that were true the .2 nacre akoya pearls would have the best luster and there would be no point in requiring a thick nacre for any reason. He says that is why SS pearls have a worse luster. I don't think this is just "agree to disagree", it shows his info pages leave a lot to be desired..... if you actually want to learn something, he is misleading too many times for one site and his facts have nothing to do with language differences. It appears to be an apologia for the extremly thin skins on the best of akoyas.

 

[Caitlin]

I like it when pearl sellers really know their history. I would expect a top quality seller would be a little more accurate in his web pages which are out there for anyone to see and be influenced by. That is all I have said in this entire thread. If H&L had read their info webpages, he never would have asked why there are different grades of hanadama over here. And being as he comes on like an expert even while remaining anonymous, makes me wonder about his agenda in asking that without reading their webpages.

just saying....

 

[Amanda]

the history looks a bit iffy to me - I thought the round pearl matter and the cases in London were post First World War, not in 1912. I could be wrong. But I have access to an excellent law library to check it!

 

[Caitlin]

The trial was in 1925. Rosenthal never saw a cultured pearl until 1913!!!

 

[kelluvpearls]

If the Pearl Science Lab is giving 'lesser grades' (I am comparing this to the standard that Caitlin adheres to for Akoyas) pearls a Hanadama certificate then there is something inherently wrong with the Laboratory's grading system (or Caitlin's standard is unobtainably high). The fix should start with the laboratory by tightening the criteria for getting a Hanadama certificate. Really this is the laboratory's fault that the definition of Hanadama is cheapened. Maybe this seller is disillusioned with this?

Whatever was Yokota's agenda I now know that a pearl strand with a Hanadama report doesn't necessarily equates to the best Akoyas.

 

[Jeweljunke]

Hi Kelluvpearls. I agree exactly. And I am sure that is what Mr. Yokota is trying to say. But I don't think the Pearl Science Lab will change, for changing will almost surely put them out of business and/or the cost of the certificates will go through the roof for there will not be enough 'best of the best' that will pass the true and original meaning of the word 'Hanadama' for them to stay in business.

 

[Alex]

This thread is very similar to several that have gone before it on the Hanadama issue?.

Way back when, I bought a 7.5-8.0 Hanadama strand for BV from a well known online retailer. I was not a member of P-G then and did not know of PP ? didn?t know much about pearls then either ! The necklace came with it?s JPSL certificate (stating nacre thickness of 0.4). The pearls were lovely, no problem. A bit later on I bought a pair of 8.0-8.5 Hanadama studs to match, from the same retailer ? again they came with their JPSL certificate (stating nacre thickness of 0.60), again lovely pearls. Then a bit later on again, I bought a 8.0-8.5 Hanadama bracelet from the same retailer, to try and create a Hanadama set. The bracelet was not good (several significant surface imperfections visible to the naked eye ? although it had the self-same JPSL Hanadama certificate. I sent it back, and got a refund. But I was very surprised and disappointed. By then I had come across PP, so switched ? and have never looked back !! (although the Hanadama set is still missing a bracelet?.. )

So when I started reading about the Hanadama issue on P-G, it rang bells for me, and answered some questions, as I had never been able to figure out how that bracelet got it?s Hanadama certificate ? I think Hanadama means ?flower-pearl?, and I had had a flower-necklace, flower-earrings, and then suddenly I got a FLOUR-bracelet !!

I have never bought Hanadama since (but then I?ve not bought Akoya since), as I moved on to Freshwater, Tahitian, and Sea of Cortez. I might buy Hanadama again, but only from Jeremy - and here?s the difficult bit as far as Hanadama is concerned ? if I were to buy them from Jeremy, I wouldn?t need the certificate, because I would know for sure that the pearls were what he said they were, e.g. top of the Akoya pile

So the difficult question is still there ? namely, just how much is a Hanadama certificate worth, as a stand-alone indication of the best-of-the-best re Akoyas. The answer would appear to be, not very much?? which I think is a bit shocking, as many people have associated Hanadama with minimal, if not zero risk, when buying Akoyas online ? it now seems the risk is actually determined by the choice of vendor ? which effectively disables the ?Hanadama Brand?, at a stroke

I would say that JPSL have some questions to answer. I am not condoning individuals or companies that have seen a gap in JPSL?s ?firewall? and are currently driving a bus through it to further their own commercial agendas, but I would say the responsibility for putting a stop to such practices ultimately rests with JPSL

 

[pearlescence]

They won't, because if they start failing too many strands, then where does their income go....no-one sends strands, no wages.
It is criteria creep mixed in with branding - and Hanadama is a brand.

 

[jshepherd]

How is hanadama a brand? Hanadama is a grade. It's one that has been abused for sure, but it still is a grade, not a brand.

 

[Jeweljunke]

pearlescence
They won't, because if they start failing too many strands, then where does their income go....no-one sends strands, no wages.
It is criteria creep mixed in with branding - and Hanadama is a brand.

This exactly.

Hi Alex. Like you, in the beginning, that is the reason I went for the certificate also. To make sure I got the best. Mr. Yokota told me it was not needed, but I insisted. In the end, I am glad I got it, but with more knowledge and experience, I now know it was not necessary. Trusting your vendor is necessary.

 

[pearlescence]

There seems to be some confusion about whether the certification can be carried out by only one lab..if it is only one lab which has the rights to issue the certifcate then I would argue that it is a brandor trade name Otherwise I can open up a lab and start issuing hanadama certificates - so long as I use the same criteria or publish my criteria.
I know I probably wouldn't get many customers, obviously but how would anyone stop me if it isn't a brand or trade name. Bet it is registered - the use of the cap H is a bit of a clue in a way. unless it is generic like vacuum cleaner and hoover (should be Hoover)

 

[Caitlin]

This thread has certainly created a brushfire.

I, for one never heard of an AA that got hanadama certification before this thread. What this thread has done is reveal the meaninglessness of the cert- if businesses will send AA strands in! OK, the word hanadama is now on my highly suspect list- especially since once a strand gets the hanadama cert, it appears to lose its actual grade in the A-AAA system.

So, you can safely buy beautiful pearls from Yakota and you will get the grade you pay too much for, unless you buy hanadama grade, which I notice costs $500 more than AA and is equal in price to the cheapest AAA. That price is no bargain, so forget the hanadama grade as it apparently means very little.

 

[jshepherd]

It is a registered company name. A company that is based in the USA and deals in South Sea pearls, not akoya.

According to Elisabeth Strack on page 362:

Experienced female sorters sort the pearls into their different quality categories ... they use bamboo sticks to divide the individual pearls into A, B and C categories and then on into subclasses, termed Aa, Ab, Ac, etc. ... Individual pearls of high value are treated separately, the Japanese call them "hanadama."

Page 364

Pearls of the so-called hanadama quality are sold separately at auctions in Tokyo.

Sellers know what a true hanadama grade is. If they are passing something off as hanadama grade and it isn't, they know what they are doing and they are doing it intentionally.

The term "hanadama" means the highest quality. This is why I've always maintained is it dishonest to call ones lower grade hanadama, knowing that people won't understand what the term means unless they are Japanese. You can't ethically give something a title as "the best of the best," even if it is in a foreign language, and right next to it say "and this is better," in my opinion.

I have a feeling as soon as this thread gets noticed we are going to be getting shilled again.

 

[Caitlin]

I thought this thread was a shill. Anon poster and all, who doesn't mind insulting others...

Well, I am happy that my insistence that hanadama means the "best of the best" is upheld

-even if you can get an AA certified, it is a racket to do so.

 

[pearlescence]

Sorry Jeremy, not following - hanadama is a usa registered company dealing in south sea pearls?
Brands fight a battle against their brands becoming generic, which means that they can no longer be claimed and protected - hoover, sellotape, xerox come to mind. It is something which they spend a lot of time and money on. Back when I was a journalist we would get letters about how we should write vacuum cleaning and how we could do it with a Hoover vacuum cleaner (not that I EVER wrote about that I hasten to add) So did Hanadama start off as a proper Japanese word which got applied to pearls or did it get applied to pearls and then go a bit generic.
same if we all started talking about freshadama grade rather than Freshadama which is a brand name with a cap F and which is Jeremy's trade/brand name
It's all part of intellectual property, and a section of law which attracts some very expensive lawyers (and I was taught it by the man who wrote the textbook)