What is the trick to tying off...

[maryd]

Ok, after spending all day yesterday tying a 17" necklace three times I am turning to all of you for help. I can't seem to get the necklace to stay tied. Here are the specs:

- Using 2 strands together of Gudebrod size E thread
- Pearls are FW Keishi 5-8mm X 10-12mm
- Gimp and 2 SS 4mm beads at each end because the pearl holes were too small to go back through

When I am finishing I am taking the thread through the two beads (without knotting), up and over the jump ring for the clasp, and back through the first bead. I then do a regular knot like I did after each pearl. I then string the thread through the 2nd bead and cut off.

The problems I am having are:
1) I cannot get the knot tight enough between the two beads. After I finish they keep sliding around.
2) The knot between the two beads slips and if I tug a little it comes apart. Even with glue. Hence the three times. Is there a different kind of knot I should be using?

Any input would be appreciated.

And I appreciate you all letting me vent. I love these pearls and it seems I cannot get them right.

 

[boo]

I don't know if anyone else does it this way, but after I have gone back through the pearls the second time (i.e., after looping the clasp on) I don't do the overhand knot like I did between all the pearls (treating both strands as one unit and passing the pearls between the loop) but rather I take each strand and tie a simple knot as if I were tying my shoes then flip the strand and repeat on the other side. I then do the same thing between the next pair of pearls/beads (the second and third pearls/beads away from the clasp) and then thread the strings through the third pearl and cut off without knotting (I already have a knot there from knotting the strand, but I think threading the "tails" through the third pearl helps keep things secure. I usually don't use glue and I haven't had a problem with the knots coming loose. However, I also pull the heck out of the strings to tighten the knots. Hope that helps!

 

[maryd]

Boo. Thank you sooooo much for answering. I do have a question where I may just not be using the right tool.

I am using a twisted wire bead threader with a collapsable eye. Based upon your method I would have to cut the thread to tie the knot. Is this true? If so, what type of needle are you using that let's you re-thread?

And thank you again for the reply. And I hope no one here minds if I ask newbie questions.

Mary

 

[Sueki]

Hi Mary,
I'd suggest reaming the last couple of pearls so's you can double back through them as well as the ss beads.
Then I do similar to Boo, taking the two tail ends through a further pearl and then cutting the threads.
Keeping it all nice and tight - don't hold the work by the ss bead, but by the next couple of beads along when pulling the silk through the gimp, clasp and ss bead.

And no, of course we don't mind......
It's how I learnt, thanks to these L.B.C. members, after all....

 

[maryd]

Keeping it all nice and tight - don't hold the work by the ss bead, but by the next couple of beads along when pulling the silk through the gimp, clasp and ss bead.

Aha, I think you hit one of my problems on the head! It also looks like I need to get new needles.

Now just an opinion question. I was trying to avoid reaming the pearls in fear of damaging them. But since I am doing a strand would it be better to risk it or would you use the SS beads. Again - just asking an opinion.

 

[Caitlin]

Hi Maryd

Tying off the end is more difficult than doing the beginning.

One way to test before starting is to pass the thread back and forth through the first and last 2-3 pearls/beads. If it doesn't fit, go down a size or two in the thread.

Though I don't think this is your problem, its mine:The problem I often have is keeping the gimp tight up against the thread on the side the thread came through. The gimp likes to go on the side you are threading back through and when it gets tight there is no more pulling. Then you have to loosen up the loop and slide the gimp over to the other, unmovable side. Using a tool on the thread right above the tight gimp will hold the gimp tight. Even so, you may have to adjust it again.

I also had the problem of getting the thread really tight against the last beads. The beads have to be so tight, up against the gimp that it is hard to get the needle through and between on the return. This is where I can really mess up a flexible needle. If I get the beads/pearls really tight against the loop of gimp there will be no gaps. if I don't there will be a gap in the last 2-3 pearls.

I am trying this method. It is entirely new to me.
I was working on a bracelet of Tahitian keshi from Jeremy's special. Even at the beginning, I wanted to use really strong thread 20#, and it couldn't double through. and I don't have a reamer, so I decided to crimp it. Yes, crimp it. I started with the first half of the clasp, put the gimp, a crimp bead pulled it very tight and passed the thread back through the crimper and crimped it tight. Then the beads. the final clasp is easy to do, just like the first, I put the gimp, crimp bead and clasp on pull it all tight to the last bead. Crimp and I am done, except for melting thread ends tight and adding 2 crimp bead covers, if having a a little metal bead looks better than the plain crimp.

 

[Sueki]

Hi Mary,
Reaming the pearls won't damage them - unless you're really careless...
And just gently reaming a little will make all the difference...
Or use Powerpro and you won't need to ream at all....

 

[maryd]

Caitlin - Ok, this looks doable and I may have the stuff to accomplish it without going to a bead shop. (This is good because yesterday I went there for 4 beads that some how cost me $35.)

I am scared to use a reamer because I am a clutz, do you use one at all?

 

[maryd]

Hi Mary,
Reaming the pearls won't damage them - unless you're really careless...
And just gently reaming a little will make all the difference...
Or use Powerpro and you won't need to ream at all....

Thank you for making me feel much more comfortable about my ability.

And what size powerpro equates to E silk thread? (ok, now you are leading me back to a bead store))

 

[boo]

The keshis sound large enough that reaming them wouldn't hurt, although as Caitlin suggests, just going down on the thread size works too! And since I don't think anyone specifically answered it yet, yes, you do have to cut the strand off the needle and then rethread each string through the pearls. As Caitlin also said, it can get tricky when the pearls are up against each other, but I have found that I can use my round nose pliers to grab the end of the needle and pull it out to where I can grab it. And yes, it can mess up the end of the needle, but then I just cut off the bent tip and can reuse the needle with no problem.

 

[boo]

I may have the stuff to accomplish it without going to a bead shop. (This is good because yesterday I went there for 4 beads that some how cost me $35.)

Yep - we've all been there!

 

[Sueki]

And what size powerpro equates to E silk thread? (ok, now you are leading me back to a bead store))

Now you've got me - maybe 20lb. ?
Caitlin and Boo will maybe know the answer to this....

 

[Caitlin]

I don't like to ream because I'm lazy.

In most cases E=20#, if it's too big, try a D silk or a 15#P-pro. Or even a 10# p-pro, which is Kether's favorite for most 5-7mm pearls (Kether is my designer/lowly beader daughter) 6# P-pro fits through beads that are less than a 1mm.

 

[maryd]

In most cases E=20#, if it's too big, try a D silk or a 15#P-pro. Or even a 10# p-pro, which is Kether's favorite for most 5-7mm pearls (Kether is my designer/lowly beader daughter) 6# P-pro fits through beads that are less than a 1mm.

Ok, that is the most useful information I have gotten on thread sizes. Thank you. It answers many other questions I have had and not asked.

 

[maryd]

Thank you all.

Thank you all.

I stepped away took all you said and here is the result. I went with beads because I didn't want to begin reaming on these beads and I also needed a little length. There is a little room for growth. The finishing beads are a little loose but you only know that if you play with them.

I do so love them!

 

[Caitlin]

Good solution for some great pearls!

 

[Nerida]

Nice pearls maryd, and nice work. We've all been there with every question you asked here... this is how we all learned to do this!
Oh, and I use 30lb powerpro on anything that's over about 10mm. Hardly ever use silk at all. I use twisted wire needles (usually medium, I find the fine ones too hard to manage), and like Boo, I use my pliers to bring the needle through the pearls when I am going back through my last pearls when tying off.

 

[boo]

It looks great! Congratulations on a very pretty necklace

 

[Sueki]

Hey !
You bin and gorn and done it !
Nice work Maryd.

 

[dkan 168]

Looks good to me, well done!

DK