These Pearls make me feel Warm & Fuzzy

[Slraep]

Hi Caitlin,

Bodecia's strand just proves that Zeide was exaggerating when she said that they were rare. Here we have another one almost the same, and just a few days after Zeide was ,,,,,well.

Anyway, I am sure that whoever is selling that necklace is not telling Bodecia that it is possibly the only necklace of its kind. Clearly they are quite common. So $90-400 it is.

Slraep

 

[Caitlin]

I think the circle' is pretty minimal. I saw a few CWP klonks at the Gem show. Although Jeremy was surprised at how high "wholesale" is at the show- most pople there are buying for retail businesses. I saw a poor qualilty klonk for $200 on the first day and someone snatched it right up. It was potatoey but had a sweet luster on all the pearls, not mirrorlike, but with some orient.

I finally found another white klonk for $25.00 11-16mm on the long sides 11mm- 13mm on the short side- the shapes are elongated, like lozenges, but drilled perpendicular to the longer side to increase the look of size. They have good skins with some dimples. The luster is uneven but on some patches it is really bright some places it is flat.

I think you would be very lucky to get the one in the picture for $400. It would have sold at the gem Show for $600-$800 and thus doubled in a retail store.

The situation with klonks is----where are they? I sure don't see them everyday and I hardly see any CFWP klonks at the shows. I notice Jeremy doesn't carry them or I would be saving up, even for a AA or a AA- or an A even.

 

[Bodecia]

As Pattye or someone here said -please correct me if it wasn't her, "Life begins at 12mm!" What we have on this forum is a bunch of klonk lovers and you show up with one. Amazing. Got any more? where did you get it? I want one too, etc, etc, etc.

Caitlin, they are not mine yet as I said in my last post but I am working on it. Still they may never be mine. My real haggling has not even started as I just don't know what to really offer for them. I have also seen some smaller Chinese FW pearls very much like these but even higher quality - they are 6 to 8 mm app. a double strand and long. So I am not sure which way to jump. The Klonks are special though and that is mostly because of there size.

A good price guide on the klonks would really help me to decide what I should do. They want take peanuts and I don't really know how much they are really worth. If I decide I am not going to buy one or the other I will pass on details but have to hold them close to my chest at the moment. I am sure you understand. I hope I don't sound like Zeide. I am not trying too.

Guess these things just happen. I have gained a better appreciation of some pearls since lurking and then joining the PF.

Bodecia

 

[Bodecia]

I think the circle' is pretty minimal. I saw a few CWP klonks at the Gem show. Although Jeremy was surprised at how high "wholesale" is at the show- most pople there are buying for retail businesses. I saw a poor qualilty klonk for $200 on the first day and someone snatched it right up. It was potatoey but had a sweet luster on all the pearls, not mirrorlike, but with some orient.

I think you would be very lucky to get the one in the picture for $400. It would have sold at the gem Show for $600-$800 and thus doubled in a retail store.

The situation with klonks is----where are they? I sure don't see them everyday and I hardly see any CFWP klonks at the shows. I notice Jeremy doesn't carry them or I would be saving up, even for a AA or a AA- or an A even.

Caitlin, you got klonks for $25 - wow that is a bargain. Wish I was there.

I doubt the owner would sell them for less than $800 and probably would not even at that. I may very well miss out on them. There are 34 individual pearls on the strand. 12 mm with the centre ones a tiny bit over. I do like the 6 to 8 mm strand too though so if I miss out on the klonks maybe I can get the smaller but longer strands. I am just to confused to think straight at the moment. I don't want to completely break my bank either. I just bought a Pearl ring. Jeremy said it looked like a natural pearl and had been what I was hoping to hear so I went ahead and bought it. So I have already laid out more than a few dollars.

Would you consider these Klonks lamprotulas ..??? They are rather transparent. I am positive or 99% so that the smaller ones are i.e. the other strand I mentioned.

Slraep, sorry to bring back bad memories. But that was for the most part before I joined. I saw klonks menioned a lot but didn't really see the photo of them. When I went to look at "those" photos the site was a no go area.

Thanks for all the help. If I don't go ahead with it will pass along details to you Caitlin as you are the klonk lover

Think I will have to re-read all of the thread now because I think I have missed some bits here and there.

Bodecia

 

[Caitlin]

Hi Bodecia
I just got out my Klassic Klonk which has 30 pearls, all almost a perfect 12mm and no pearl less than 12mm. It is 16" with the clasp.
The one you want has 33 pearls and is an inch longer. So the size sounds about right.

I hope we can all help each other buy the klonks we don't want for ourselves. I propose a klonk watch

How did you find this klonk? Even if we have to wait to hear the whole story, I want to hear it!

 

[Slraep]

I hope I don't sound like Zeide. I am not trying too.

Guess these things just happen. I have gained a better appreciation of some pearls since lurking and then joining the PF.

Bodecia

Hi Bodecia,

Yes, I know you are not trying to sound like Zeide, I know you are.

Well, Jeremy is your best bet on pricing info, so if he says $90-400 in China. Then you'd be silly not to believe it.

How did the present owner come to have it? A "friend" of mine has a similar one, too.

Slraep

 

[jshepherd]

I would say the chances of them being lamprotulas is about none to none. I have heard of no one using lamprotulas in China for anything other than Akoya nulcei. I know it was mentioned on another thread somewhere, but it just is not true - it was just a fantaZ. Anything you see that is not grown in a test lab is going to be plain Hyriopsis cumingii.

If you are buying the strand in the US, chances are you are going to pay a premium. After the prices I saw in Tucson, $800 does not even sound bad (wholesale). I remember at one booth both Caitlin and I thought the sellers prices were in Hong Kong dollars - he seemed to take offense at that question (Caitlin voiced her suspicions) and hurried us on our way.

Caitlin,
The reason we tend to stay away from the klonks is simply because the top-notch, round, clean goods are just not prevalent enough to market. It is hard to get a single strand, let alone a line. Most material in that size has too many problems. It is very difficult to sell those sorts of things online as most customers have no base of comparison upon receipt. A lot of them would come back... But that IS why we are working on a high-end baroque line. I made a couple of samples just to get an idea a few months back. They are not really that large, however, with the smallest pearls just over 10mm (yes, over, not 9.5), and the centers close to 13mm. But even with this line we have the difficulty of people not understanding the value. For example, one person with apparently no clue of market pricing stated that the second strand down would only cost about $15 in China (less than my cost of a single pearl). Pearl-educated customers would love them I am sure, but that other element remains.
https://www.pearl-guide.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1158

 

[Valeria101]

Do you have them at hand? In the picture there seems to be a dull circle around the pearl's diameter - something I'm used to see in large but inexpensive freshwater pearls (Ebay, alright - haven't been to China ). Four figures? maybe the smallest four figure number, but ... How patient are you?

Among all those freshwater offers, I would like this one for being a more graduated strand (personal preference), for the lack of rejects (can't see any really bad pearl to take out from it). On the other hand, I would like to believe that you could get rid of the dull bands at least on the smaller pearls on the strand for the above mentioned budget.

Speaking of FleaBay, here's the 'risky retail offers' I had in mind: LINKI, LINKII, LINKIII... stuff like this. Every now and then better (like yours) come up venturing $1k-ish prices - clearly, that would be an adventurous price level in that context!

Would I go for them? Hm... good question. Would at least try hard not to (i.e. ask around, put an order with a seller for the next buying trip, anything possible).

Exotic provenance? OK. I can't tell myself... but would definitely want to know for sure before paying for the honor. Ms. Strack's appraisal lab might be far, but postage is cheap Sale conditional on appraisal is not that exotic for fine precious stones, why should it be for pearls? I don't think the usual gemological laboratories issue official reports identifying pearl species (not even quality, for that matter) just type (fresh vs. saltwater, size, nucleation status, color treatment)... but would want at least that as a more mainstream variant of an expert appraisal, that is, if the price makes sense.

Sorry for the long post - at least wanted to air some ideas (rather than give inexpert 'advice' ).

Speaking of lab or expert reports for exotic pearl choices: what does GAAJ offer? They seem more pearl-concerned than any other of the 'big' gemological laboratories... not surprising for the location though. But what are they ready to certify based on their research?

LINK to GAAJ pearl ID research note with a range of fine white pearls of different species

Also, are the nucleated freshwater anywhere near? Some say they are (ref to CIBJO, Imperial Deltah and a clonk on the gemology forum).

 

[Valeria101]

The reason we tend to stay away from the clonks is simply because the top-notch, round, clean goods are just not prevalent enough to market. It is hard to get a single strand, let alone a line.

[...] even with this line [of 10-13mm baroque] we have the difficulty of people not understanding the value. For example, one person with apparently no clue of market pricing stated that the second strand down would only cost about $15 in China (less than my cost of a single pearl). Pearl-educated customers would love them I am sure, but that other element remains.

Reminds me of a certain 'business plan' of Mr. Eco - the philosopher. And of Karen Bleifer's shop - hardly a line, but she's had unusual pearls among her offer for a few good years now; either she's allowing indulgence for her own taste or these simply make sense.

It shouldn't be too hard for folks to grasp producer (retail) prices for the less common

 

[perlas]

Hi Bodecia,
The pearls don't look transparent in the picture. They do look like they have dull spots which is actually common in big CFWP. Jeremy is right though. I doubt if they are lamprotulas, never seen one myself. FW Klonks are sold in Asia approx. USD200-500 strand and at USD800, that is not bad if it is as pictured.

But why buy in the US? I expect a big premium once it lands US soil unless wholesale and more so on the retail world. I checked your e-mail address and you're using bigpond so chances are you reside in Australia.

Hi Caitlin,
Even in Asia, you can hardly see a line of klonks and the tourists just snatch them! To produce a clean strand, you do have to cherry pick in at least a few strands. Once the pearls get bigger they tend to have dull spots (thus a lot of them are dyed black) and I doubt if Jeremy will carry pearls with dull spots. 12mm or bigger clean FW pearl costs the same as south seas here.

Hi Valeria,
It never ceases to amaze me where you get your links! Nice big FW baroques!

 

[jshepherd]

You can also create those strands from loose pearl grade. The problem you run up against is finding enough matching loose grade. Also, as the necklace grade qualities drop in the larger sizes, so do the average loose pearl grades. Purchasing in that size by selection would not only be an enormously time-consuming task, one would have to negotiate 'till blue in the face nearly 30 times per strand.

It would be fun to make a few, but very difficult. Even in the 10-11mm sizes we have determined it is near impossible to set up a consistent program to produce the freshadama line. The are now matched to order with a backlog.

 

[perlas]

Hi Jeremy,

But wouldn't the loose grade cost a heck lot more? It's like buying "earring quality" south sea pearls (if there's such a thing) then making them into necklace. I assume an assembled strand from loose grade would cost a few thousand dollars.

There's a big price difference in loose grade and strands. But then again, it is true that the quality ratio drops (against gem quality pearls) as the pearls get bigger so to get on the loose grade might be the best option to assemble a gem quality strand.

 

[jshepherd]

A "heck of a lot more" is actually an understatement when you are talking about sizes above 12mm - it would cost 3-4 times as much as the highest grade necklace. But that is really the only way to create a strand that is on par with the smaller strands in quality. Also, because the bar drops with loose grade when the sizes are that much larger, the pearls would have to be purchased by selection, not by lots. You know what that does to the prices.

I guess it would be like purchasing the earring grade for South Sea. But that is common when creating gem South Sea (whites, golds, and Tahitians) strands. Common when we are discussing graded lots, not matched pairs. It is really the only way to create truly unblemished strands... I know, so many think it is a waste to do that, especially with tahitians. A/B and B grade is the typical best quality in the strands. But if you cut out one trader you can increase a full grade easily for the same price.

 

[Valeria101]

Looking at the picture, there was a bit of discussion about their size... but no mention of what first struck me about them - graduation (measuring diameters in the picture, it amounts to over 15% - so if the largest is >12mm, the smallest pearl nears 10mm). That makes comparison with 12mm non-graduated strands (wich seems to go on throughout the discussion here) uneven...

 

[Caitlin]

I was trying to edit my last post when I l;ost contact.

What I was going to say to Bodecia is that Strack on page 346 says, "lamprotula is found in nearly all rivers, streams, and lakes in China but but it is not used for pearl culture and practically no natural pearls have been found"

Jeremy,
You make my point, which is that there are few klonks. Too few to provide a dependable source for you to market, for instance. Your baroques really had phenomenal luster from what I saw in the photo you put up, but I didn't love the shapes. That is purely my opinion though. I prefer the potato-y shapes. And I liked those warty pearls we saw at the US Pearl CO too. The public has a long way to go in their baroque education, but I think the trend is moving that way

Perlas
I was going post a picture of my Klassic Klonk which I got 2 years ago at Evergreen Trading Co for $10. I haven't seen anything like it since. I wish I had bought all of them, because I could have sold every one. Then summer before last I had to buy 10 kilos and take them apart to get 3 strands of Klonks. And then I had 50 strands of 9-10mm pearls. That was my big buy from China venture......sigh......And I still have a few left.

Last year I found some klonks at Tai Woo and bought about 4 of them for their size. They look like lumps of graphite and they are huge, but their luster is subtle- to be nice about it. Neverthe less, when I wear them, people like them. This gem show I did find a white klonk for $25.00. The shapes range from lozenge to a bit eggy. the sizes from 12mmX12mm to one that is 17-15mm. They have at least one patch of luster on each pearl and at least one patch of dull.The skins are good though, compared to the black klonks. I had to buy a second strand for $15 to get the first strand for $25 and when I got home I found that the second strand's pearls are all over 12mm, too. I'll be taking some pictures soon.

I found out at the Strack lecture, that the silver nitrate aka silver salts, that they use to dye them also stresses them and increases the chips and pits in the surfaces.

 

[jshepherd]

Looking at the picture, there was a bit of discussion about their size... but no mention of what first struck me about them - graduation (measuring diameters in the picture, it amounts to over 15% - so if the largest is >12mm, the smallest pearl nears 10mm). That makes comparison with 12mm non-graduated strands (wich seems to go on throughout the discussion here) uneven...

Ana,
You are right. It is clear as the pearls near the clasp are visible near the center pearl. The strand does have a 2mm graduation.

 

[Caitlin]

Valeria
All those strands you found are in China and I am wary about ordering from them. One of the companies, Oriental Pearls, the one that has the heavily circle' strand, has an office in California run by Lan Toma. I did order from them once and got exactly what I ordered.

The necklace offered for $999 that no one bid on is nicely matched nice round pearls, but they are lackluster- and that is for 1K from China!!! This is why we are klonk starved. My $25-- strand has more luster, though it is more inconsistent than the one for 1k

Jeremy you said the owner of Bellas buys klonks in China, but they aren't listed online. How do we find out what they have?

 

[Valeria101]

... 1K from China!!!

Yeah... I know... for better or worse I am used to developing country nightmare, I am from one and often work on development projects in worse places. I admit there is risk-taking involved and do not have any magic wand - just the habit to live with the situation

Last year I found some klonks at Tai Woo and bought about 4 of them for their size. They look like lumps of graphite and they are huge, but their luster is subtle- to be nice about it.

Graphite !... the tip of my pen looks rather cute color-wise. Were they anywhere similar to those large circled pearls? Any example online?

 

[Caitlin]

Hi Valeria
Here is a picture of a Tai Woo klonk. The center bead is 12mmx14mm in my measurement which means 12mm or greater, 14mm or greater. The merchants would call it 13-15mm for sure.

PLEASE note. I am not making any grandiose claims for these-they are commercial grade. Worse quality than typical bead quality, but the 4 Tai Woo klonks were 4th-8th klonks I managed to get my hands on in 2 years of searching. They look nice in the afternoon and evening. Their more graphite-like qualities come out in bright daylight.

 

[Bodecia]

Hi Bodecia
I just got out my Klassic Klonk which has 30 pearls, all almost a perfect 12mm and no pearl less than 12mm. It is 16" with the clasp.
The one you want has 33 pearls and is an inch longer. So the size sounds about right.

I hope we can all help each other buy the klonks we don't want for ourselves. I propose a klonk watch

How did you find this klonk? Even if we have to wait to hear the whole story, I want to hear it!

Hi Caitlin,

Thanks for all the input and advise but at the moment I don't know if I want to go ahead with the purchase. There were so many differing opinions on quality, price etc that I am too confused to think straight. Was getting awfully tired too. Still am. I might rethink it in the next couple of days if it is still available. Think it will be. If I am not going to go ahead with it I will give you the link via email. That be okay?
I really don't want to make a mistake when talking that kind of money and I think it would be at least $800. The lady actually told me today that she has two other necklaces but that is the biggest one. And she does import them from the sound of it. I would love to buy one direct from China but that is really risky. Sizes on that one are 12 mm plus or so I was told. I did get a few more photos but do not intend to list them here.

Slraep,

Yes, I know you are not trying to sound like Zeide, I know you are.
Well, Jeremy is your best bet on pricing info, so if he says $90-400 in China. Then you'd be silly not to believe it.
How did the present owner come to have it? A "friend" of mine has a similar one, too.
Slraep

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. If I was Zeide I would not have to ask the questions I am asking. I doubt if she would admit her ignorance on anything. And as for price 90 to 400 is now maybe 800. So what am I to think. I am a junior member and although I love pearls I need to learn a lot. I thought uploading a photo and asking questions was a good way. I was not to know that it would hit a really sore spot with you and whatever your dealings with Zeide there is no need to take it out on a newbie to the PF who is just trying to learn and maybe lusts after pearls she shouldn't.

As for the "friend of mine" bit well I don't know this lady, can't call her a friend although I do make a lot of friends online and on ebay and not all ebay sellers are rip off merchants. Read the rest and you will see that I found out today that the lady selling it imports them from the sound of it. Only found that out today but I didn't think she grew it herself.

I did think that a photo was worth a thousand words and I think that many have been posted on this thread by now. Still think posting photos is a good idea. I am sure too that other junior members would benefit from feedback on any pearl photo posted. I think it is a great way to learn. But heaven help us if we post something that Zeide might have said she owned or grew or whatever.

To All,

Thanks to all for feedback on the pearls. Later will tell you if I get them or not or maybe Caitlin will get them. Wanting something and getting something are two different things, unfortunately I still have to re-read and re-read the thread again and all the spin offs from it.

Bodecia