The Bain of Sellers - Buyer Remorse

[Pearl Dreams]

The upcoming changes to feedback:

http://pages.ebay.com/services/forum/new.html

 

[Pearl Dreams]

...
I leave great feedback for customers and generally they do the same for me but this time I am sure I will be Slammed... I guess what is distressing me is that I will slam her back, but there is not enough room to explain why and it will just look like I am a nasty piece of work.

This is one of the reasons why eBay is changing the feedback rules.
Buyers who give a seller a negative often get a retaliatory negative from the seller-- which, from her post, is apparently what Dawn is intending to do to this buyer.

Dawn, you sold this buyer a piece of green glass in modern 10K gold for $455.00, leading her to believe it was vintage or antique and an emerald. If this happened to me as a buyer, I would be giving out my first negative feedback ever.

If she does give you a negative feedback, take it --and learn from it to be absolutely sure of what you are selling before listing it. Don't neg her back. It will make you look bad if you do-- and anyway, she may wait until the feedback changes are instituted to be sure that you can't neg her back.

Don't waffle in your descriptions about what your item is or isn't-- find out what it is, then stand behind your description. It's an issue of integrity.

 

[Sueki]

The whole concept of ebay - and any on-line selling - is based on trust.
Whoever is right or wrong here, sellers make mistakes occasionally, and honest sellers will be mortified and insist on a full refund when the item is returned. And sometimes, the item just doesn't suit the buyer when seen in reality.
Dawn states that a refund was offered, but her buyer was reluctant to do this.
However, I see that the buyer has this on her auction page "NO RETURNS". What's that all about ?
Seeing as the original reason for the ring being unsuitable was given as "the ring doesn't suit me", I'd have thought that the buyer (now the seller) would be the last person to have those terms on their listings.....
The words pot, kettle, and black come to mind.

 

[Slraep]

However, I see that the buyer has this on her auction page "NO RETURNS". What's that all about ?

Hi Sueki,

Any seller can have a "no return" policy. And many do. Of course, it limits the number of bidders on their merchandise, but the seller knows that. Dawn is free to do the same, but she does not have a no return policy. A generous return policy makes people know they have a recourse if the bidding gets high and the merchandise is perhaps not what it's suppose to be, or alluded to be. Or they have strong suspicions of seller shilling.(I'm not saying this is the case either)

The reseller is being upfront, I think. She describes the ring very well with no iffiness as to what the stone could be. Someone who collects these Black Hills gold rings would get a "fair" deal if it went for 200 bucks(starting bid).

Slraep

 

[Pearl Dreams]

She ought to have shown the inside of the ring so the buyer would know it's hollow, especially as she has in her description, "it has a very substantial shank." I find hollow rings very uncomfortable --they make grooved indentations in my finger-- and I never buy them.

The fact that she talks about the "very substantial shank" but doesn't mention that it is hollow may lay her open to a Significantly Not As Described dispute with PayPal, if the buyer pays that way-- sellers find out that there is no such thing as "no returns" if PayPal finds in a buyer's favor.

 

[Slraep]

She ought to have shown the inside of the ring so the buyer would know it's hollow. I find hollow rings very uncomfortable --they make grooved indentations in my finger-- and I never buy them.

It looks like the company makes its rings by stamping the leafy design into a varying sized band of gold, which can't be too hefty to begin with. Is that why there is a hollow effect(or curled up edge)on the backside?

Not my cup of tea either. I don't think I have any items in 10K. No, I'm certain I don't.

Slraep

 

[Sueki]

Hi Sueki,

Any seller can have a "no return" policy. And many do.

Slraep

Hi Slraep,
Yeah, I know, but I think no returns stinks.
Especially when it's coming from someone who has experienced buying an item on-line and then not being happy with it when seeing it in the flesh.
Good sellers realise that buyers are buying sight-unseen and will happily accept the return.

 

[Pearl Dreams]

Making the ring hollow at the back uses less gold-- so the ring can be made and sold for less. It is typical of cheaper rings such as those sold on TV jewelry shows, Wal-Mart etc.

 

[Slraep]

Yeah, I know, but I think no returns stinks.
Especially when it's coming from someone who has experienced buying an item on-line and then not being happy with it when seeing it in the flesh.
Good sellers realise that buyers are buying sight-unseen and will happily accept the return.

Hi Sueki,

Yes, I agree wholeheartedly. That's why I never(almost never) buy from anyone who does not have a return policy. But that's not to say that a seller doesn't have the right to have a "no return" policy. I often got very specific and wild requests when I was a "finder" for my clients. Sometimes it took up to two years to find certain items if not longer. We had to put things down on paper because after two years of me searching and finally finding, the last thing I wanted to hear was that the customer had suddenly changed their mind, or that she now realizes that the 10 carat Burmese gem she asked for makes her look vulgar. Even with a contract, some tried anyway. Most were very generous and a pleasure to work with, though.

The thing is, if, as a seller, you offer a return policy, it would be wise to implement it immediately when you get a tough/eccentric customer. Or refund the monetary difference on an item that is blatantly not worth 455 bucks, if the customer still wants to keep it. Which is maybe what Dawn did after all.

Slraep

 

[Nerida]

This has all turned out to be rather unfortunate, don't you think? Instead of encouraging people to use ebay as both buyers and sellers, it has become a litany of all the reasons to not use it. I will continue to use it - I think the buyer in this case was a little silly (who would spend $455 on a hollow ring with "maybe" an emerald) and it all could have been managed better. Would I buy from someone with a no returns policy - no - got to say, I agree with Sueki -I think that stinks!

 

[Slraep]

This has all turned out to be rather unfortunate, don't you think? Instead of encouraging people to use ebay as both buyers and sellers, it has become a litany of all the reasons to not use it. I will continue to use it - I think the buyer in this case was a little silly (who would spend $455 on a hollow ring with "maybe" an emerald) and it all could have been managed better. Would I buy from someone with a no returns policy - no - got to say, I agree with Sueki -I think that stinks!

Hi Nerida,

Yes, very unfortunate, that's for sure. But eBay has so many good uses and is such a treasure trove of stuff for the average surfer-buyer that it usually outweighs the risks, doesn't it? I'll still use it too. I'm glad I learned about the shilling part here on PG. I wasn't aware it was so easy to do!!

Slraep

 

[Nerida]

That's exactly how I use ebay - as a treasure trove to access things that I can't find in other ways. I used to buy pearls on ebay, but returned about half of them always - never with any problems. My newfound interest in beading/stringing etc is only possible because of ebay - I just can't access these things in other ways. Yes the benefits definitely outweigh the negatives, so long as you enter transactions with your homework done, or with your eyes open - preferably both!

Bodecia - it would be great to hear if you have managed to reach a resolution with your buyer to see how all has eventuated.

 

[Pearl Dreams]

I still use eBay but I am very careful. I use Toolhaus to evaluate a seller's feedback before bidding or buying (see link below, for whose who are not familiar with it).

And now that IDs are hidden, I mostly use Buy It Now. If I bid, it's only by sniping and even then only if there has been no suspicious activity on the auction's bidding. And I never buy things in the high fraud categories: electronics, cell phones, laptops, gift cards, tickets.

So here is the link for Toolhaus-- it only shows negatives, neutrals and mutual feedback withdrawals. It's good to use if the seller has a lot of feedback and it would take too long to look through many pages of it to find out if there are repeated complaints of a particular sort.

http://www.toolhaus.org/cgi-bin/negs

 

[Sueki]

Hi Nerida,
I, too, continue to use ebay - actually quite a lot - and have faith in the sellers I deal with.
There are far more honest sellers and buyers than otherwise.
But one has to do one's homework (the Queen speaking here, in case Elaine is lurking)
I've had, I don't know, it must be a couple of thousand, successful transactions with people from all around the globe, and I've had some fantastic deals with people of great integrity. But I won't buy from those with t.&c.'s mentioned above.
Hi Slraep, I take your point re. returns policies being a seller's right, and that there are cases where it's required.
But for ebay, I choose not to buy from those who don't have one, and laugh out loud when I read those "NO RETURNS" statements, for I know full well that, if Paypal is accepted, then sooner or later the seller will find out the hard way just how useless that statement is.

 

[silverseajewelry]

Care Ehret has a no return policy, doesn't she? (not that anyone would ever be disappointed by her jewelry).

BTW, I can sort of understand why some people have a no return policy. There *are* frivilous buyers out there. I allow returns, though. I will not refund shipping and handling though, unless there is damage to the item or the fault is somehow mine. This makes sellers think a little more about their purchases rather than buying something and deciding they don't like it.

 

[Caitlin]

Care also has a policy of not allowing 0 feedback bidders bid on her stuff- or people with negative feedback. Well they have to contact and convince her they are OK first. That way she knows who they are if they give her trouble.

I think the only thing bad about that sale was that 0 feedback person driving up the price. I hope Bo will institute a no bid on 0 feedback people without an interview.

I think she should report the 0 feedback person for driving up the price and try to find out who it is so she can refuse them when and if they ever bid on her stuff again. (They could have a feedback by then too)

I bet Care had that problem until she put that policy in place. Look at the grief it has caused, not to mention hassle, in just this one sale.

I bet that 0 feedback person has already been kicked off eBay at least once and is back to cause trouble to people who don't have a 0 feedback policy.

 

[Slraep]

I think the only thing bad about that sale was that 0 feedback person driving up the price. I hope Bo will institute a no bid on 0 feedback people without an interview.

Hi Caitlin,

It was also the description of the item as being set with a real emerald and it being from the 1800's.

Slraep

 

[Caitlin]

I thought she caged about that saying- as far as she knew, but was not 100% positive.

That unsureness is a clear indication that for the buyer, more questions and pictures are needed and they should set a price beyond which they will not bid- just in case- then stick to it. If the winner hadn't bid it up in competition with the 0 feedback person, the 0 feedback person would have won it.

That bidding frenzy which makes people lose their balance and go bid-crazy to keep the other bidder from getting it, is a well known phenomenon and someone with as much experience as the buyer, should have a handle on it- or will sometimes have to pay the consequences.

It is too bad neither checked out the feedback for the other bidder. That would have been a big red flag. Dawn's mistake was not to stop that 0 feedbacker before the end of the bidding. Then it would have gone to other buyer for the original price.

How did it get decided it was glass? Glass is rarely ensconced in 10k gold, but a lousy emerald would be. That was clearly a case of the buyer bidding improperly as much as Dawn failing to notice one of the bidders looked like trouble.

I like to buy on eBay and to sell, but I try to read every nuance of the descriptions carefully when there is no guarantee it is genuine. When I am bidding, I keep careful track of my competition- Even if I do not know who they are, I can tell a lot by the bids, like who is just bidding once and who is sticking in there. And I do not try to beat my competition ever, I just bid to what I will pay for it without rregret if it is not as claimed- and I often lose those auctions and I don't mind.

I can't read through every post on this thread over and over to be sure I am accurate, but if Dawn does not have a clear return and refund policy, she should develop one that covers these and other contingencies.

 

[Caitlin]

I did read through the old posts. Pearl dream's link to Colemen jewelry. Except for CZ, it looks like they use inexpensive gem stones. Mount St Helen's was not until 1980 so if that stone is glass from Mount St Helen's as the seller claims, it was made since 1980.

I see the buyer is listing it as vintage and asking $300.

Lovely intricately designed Vintage Black Hills Gold Ring w/exquisite scrolled leaves and design in pink (rose) and yellow 10K w/12K in leaf work The stone was created from the ashes of St. Helen's volcano and is a luscious green color. Typical of the Black Hill Gold jewelry, it is a very substantial ring, not at all flimsy, and is stunning on the hand. It is approximately a size 7 to 7&1/2 but could easily be resized as it has a very substantial shank. Stone measures approximately 7 x 5 and entire setting is 18 mm north to south (vertical).

If she says it is from Mt St Helen's, she is clearly wrong or shouldn't call it vintage. 1980 isn't vintage yet, is it? She also passes on the "substantial shank" claim. When will it ever end?

If she had sent it back, Dawn could write to the Coleman company and send a photo and find out when it was made. The buyer did not do any of that. If she had, she could clearly say it was misrepesented.

My hubby was selling a bunch of his mom's antiques. He researched every single hallmark and signature before setting the price. (The Boule clock turned out to be built with a different company's clockworks, so it was found to be an 18th century reproduction. Still worth quite a bit, just not the astronomical price a genuine Boule would fetch.

They have books in libraries, plus some things can be researched online as Pearl Dreams did when she found what the hallmark means. It is a lot of work to list on eBay when all is said and done correctly.

 

[Slraep]

Hi Caitlin,

That word "vintage"is used very loosely by vendors. It's misleading but is thrown around eBay as soon as something is 10 yrs old or more.

Below is Dawn's description of the item in question. I hope she does not mind as it is still accessible on eBay to anyone interested.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ESTATE-VINTAGE-...ameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

BEAUTIFUL VINTAGE, ESTATE BLACK HILLS 10k GOLD RING. YELLOW & ROSE GOLD. I BELIEVE THE GEMSTONE IS A COLUMBIAN EMERALD.

THE WORKMANSHIP ON THIS GORGEOUS RING IS STUNNING. It is hard to part with it.

Please enlarge my Photos and look at the Natural Inclusions which indicate that it is an Emerald. I have not had it checked by a Gemmolist but a jeweller thought it was an Emerald when I took it in ages ago. Can't guarantee it but I am fairly sure. I originally bought it from an Antique store as an antique and Emerald ring. It is hard to know the exact age of this beautiful ring. I would say it is fairly old as the workmanship & attention to details is rarely found in modern pieces. I believe the Black Hills were mined from about 1860 onwards after the Dakota peoples were ivicted from their land due to the finding of this beauiful gold, unfortunately for them. So it could be late 1800s or sometime in the 19th Century but it is NOT a modern piece. The stone is eye clear and only show up under high magnification.
Marked 10k 10 k or 10 ct & CCO - which would be the marker's mark. There is also another mark but I cannot make it out. These marks are in a Cartouche.

It is an Extremely Beautiful Ring. Made by a Craftsman. The Black Hills Gold is stunning with basically Yellow Gold and Pink or Rose Gold used on half of the leaves which makes it look like shadow and was probably the intent.

Measurements - The Emerald ? is 7 x 5 mm and the north to south measures of gold and stone overall are 18mm. Internally ring size would be in Australian app. a N or O but it is 18 mm so measure a ring that fits and check out if it is your size by measuring the internal dimensions of one of your own rings . It could be resized if needed.

This is a beautiful, elegant that any lady would be thrilled to wear. I WILL NOT BE RELISTING THIS RING IF IT DOES NOT SELL AS DUE TO QUESTIONS I HAVE FALLEN IN LOVE WITH IT ALL OVER AGAIN.