StarryPearl's thread

Earlier this week, I received a set of beautiful T pearls that I found to match the peacock T pair I shared. They are not drilled yet. One or two of them if looked at closely are high button pearls. I am a bit hesitant whether I would like to drill them the conventional way, or from side to side.


Before sharing the pictures, I'd like to finally revisit the DNA fingerprinting paper. Honestly, I didn't understand the paper 100%, and my head is filled with tons of big and small question marks. I probably missed important information, too. Nonetheless, I'll ask a few here. Would appreciate if anyone bothers to answer, and all discussion is welcome.

1. I learned PCR-RFLP and understand how complicated it is. While I was reading the paper, I was wondering why they didn't directly do the sequencing of relevent genes (the "four target loci") on the PCR amplified adductor muscle specimens' DNAs and the pearl specimens' DNAs and just run a comparision of the sequences? Intuitively, same species' muscle DNA and pearl DNA would match, right? Why did they have to go through the whole complicated process of RFLP? Even 11 years ago, sequencing was not very expensive. I found online that in 2014, the cost of a human genome sequence dropped to $1,000. And that's a whole human genome's price we're talking about. A few specific oyster genes should be so much cheaper. Wikipedia also says "RFLP analysis is now largely obsolete due to the emergence of inexpensive DNA sequencing technologies". So, why did this group of researchers choose to use the complicated RFLP instead?

2. The method and logic in the paper seems to be based on the assumption that the DNA obtained from the pearl is the DNA of the oyster that carried the pearl, or at least the same species with that oyster. So I am curious, what is those organic matter between the bead and the nacre? I suspect that's the debris of the donor mantle tissue, is that correct? The epithelial cells in the donor tissue reproduce and develope into the pearl sac, but the tissue itself cannot 100% turn into the sac, and therefore some debris was trapped inside, am I understanding correctly?

3. To continue Question 2, I'm also curious: do ALL oysters EXCLUSIVELY use donor tissue from the same species for pearl production? I know that's what farmers do all the time, but is it a guarantee, like a 100% thing? Has anyone ever tried to put SoC pearl's tissue in Tahitian's shell, hoping to make large quantity SoC pearls? (Well, might need a new name if succeeded, LOL!) If that's too difficult because they are from different genera, how about P. Penguin's tissue into P. Sterna's oyster? Although SoC shell is smaller, it seems to produces decent size pearls more easily than Mabe Gai does. Did anyone ever try? If not, will it be possible? I understand even same species grafting already has a high death rate, and it would be intuitive to think cross-species and cross-genus will lead to even worse rate. But, if SoC could become more abundant and affordable, if Mabe Gai full pearls were more often seen on the market (instead of in a myth), how wonderful would that be...


Apologies for my crazy questions. According to a UK study, a lack of sleep lead to a lack of self-control. I was only able to sleep <4 hours last night and I feel like I'm sleepwalking all day today. So I forgive myself. 🤪

All in all, I was very excited and impressed to see the worldwide collaboration on a pearl study using molecular biology technologies. While we are having fun playing with pearls and admiring their beauty, researchers are advancing the science and tech system using sophisticated tools and methodologies. 🙂

And thanks again for sharing the paper with us, @SteveM .
 
Earlier this week, I received a set of beautiful T pearls that I found to match the peacock T pair I shared. They are not drilled yet. One or two of them if looked at closely are high button pearls. I am a bit hesitant whether I would like to drill them the conventional way, or from side to side.


Before sharing the pictures, I'd like to finally revisit the DNA fingerprinting paper. Honestly, I didn't understand the paper 100%, and my head is filled with tons of big and small question marks. I probably missed important information, too. Nonetheless, I'll ask a few here. Would appreciate if anyone bothers to answer, and all discussion is welcome.

1. I learned PCR-RFLP and understand how complicated it is. While I was reading the paper, I was wondering why they didn't directly do the sequencing of relevent genes (the "four target loci") on the PCR amplified adductor muscle specimens' DNAs and the pearl specimens' DNAs and just run a comparision of the sequences? Intuitively, same species' muscle DNA and pearl DNA would match, right? Why did they have to go through the whole complicated process of RFLP? Even 11 years ago, sequencing was not very expensive. I found online that in 2014, the cost of a human genome sequence dropped to $1,000. And that's a whole human genome's price we're talking about. A few specific oyster genes should be so much cheaper. Wikipedia also says "RFLP analysis is now largely obsolete due to the emergence of inexpensive DNA sequencing technologies". So, why did this group of researchers choose to use the complicated RFLP instead?

2. The method and logic in the paper seems to be based on the assumption that the DNA obtained from the pearl is the DNA of the oyster that carried the pearl, or at least the same species with that oyster. So I am curious, what is those organic matter between the bead and the nacre? I suspect that's the debris of the donor mantle tissue, is that correct? The epithelial cells in the donor tissue reproduce and develope into the pearl sac, but the tissue itself cannot 100% turn into the sac, and therefore some debris was trapped inside, am I understanding correctly?

3. To continue Question 2, I'm also curious: do ALL oysters EXCLUSIVELY use donor tissue from the same species for pearl production? I know that's what farmers do all the time, but is it a guarantee, like a 100% thing? Has anyone ever tried to put SoC pearl's tissue in Tahitian's shell, hoping to make large quantity SoC pearls? (Well, might need a new name if succeeded, LOL!) If that's too difficult because they are from different genera, how about P. Penguin's tissue into P. Sterna's oyster? Although SoC shell is smaller, it seems to produces decent size pearls more easily than Mabe Gai does. Did anyone ever try? If not, will it be possible? I understand even same species grafting already has a high death rate, and it would be intuitive to think cross-species and cross-genus will lead to even worse rate. But, if SoC could become more abundant and affordable, if Mabe Gai full pearls were more often seen on the market (instead of in a myth), how wonderful would that be...


Apologies for my crazy questions. According to a UK study, a lack of sleep lead to a lack of self-control. I was only able to sleep <4 hours last night and I feel like I'm sleepwalking all day today. So I forgive myself. 🤪

All in all, I was very excited and impressed to see the worldwide collaboration on a pearl study using molecular biology technologies. While we are having fun playing with pearls and admiring their beauty, researchers are advancing the science and tech system using sophisticated tools and methodologies. 🙂

And thanks again for sharing the paper with us, @SteveM .
To help answer your questions....and one is a bit out of my league since I am not a Geneticist:

1. I was wondering why they didn't directly do the sequencing of relevent genes (the "four target loci") on the PCR amplified adductor muscle specimens' DNAs and the pearl specimens' DNAs and just run a comparision of the sequences? Intuitively, same species' muscle DNA and pearl DNA would match, right? Right. They would match indeed...but the "Why" as to why they do it this way---beats me!

2. So I am curious, what is those organic matter between the bead and the nacre? I suspect that's the debris of the donor mantle tissue, is that correct? The epithelial cells in the donor tissue reproduce and developed into the pearl sac, but the tissue itself cannot 100% turn into the sac, and therefore some debris was trapped inside, am I understanding correctly? YES, you got this right. It is precisely as you state...and not only mantle tissue, there is also gonadic tissue -from the host- involved too.

3. do ALL oysters EXCLUSIVELY use donor tissue from the same species for pearl production? I know that's what farmers do all the time, but is it a guarantee, like a 100% thing? Has anyone ever tried to put SoC pearl's tissue in Tahitian's shell, hoping to make large quantity SoC pearls? Yes. We -pearl farmers- use the mantle from the same species. There have been many experiments about mantle tissue exchange and the results are from poor to full failures. I myself tried to use mantle from Pteria sterna in Pinctada mazatlanica and into other species such as the "Lion's Paw Scallop" (Nodipecten subnudosus) and it did not work. I mean...you have the specimens, the tools...and too many questions! You simply try! But you also see the results and then just stop trying.
 
To help answer your questions....and one is a bit out of my league since I am not a Geneticist:

1. I was wondering why they didn't directly do the sequencing of relevent genes (the "four target loci") on the PCR amplified adductor muscle specimens' DNAs and the pearl specimens' DNAs and just run a comparision of the sequences? Intuitively, same species' muscle DNA and pearl DNA would match, right? Right. They would match indeed...but the "Why" as to why they do it this way---beats me!

2. So I am curious, what is those organic matter between the bead and the nacre? I suspect that's the debris of the donor mantle tissue, is that correct? The epithelial cells in the donor tissue reproduce and developed into the pearl sac, but the tissue itself cannot 100% turn into the sac, and therefore some debris was trapped inside, am I understanding correctly? YES, you got this right. It is precisely as you state...and not only mantle tissue, there is also gonadic tissue -from the host- involved too.

3. do ALL oysters EXCLUSIVELY use donor tissue from the same species for pearl production? I know that's what farmers do all the time, but is it a guarantee, like a 100% thing? Has anyone ever tried to put SoC pearl's tissue in Tahitian's shell, hoping to make large quantity SoC pearls? Yes. We -pearl farmers- use the mantle from the same species. There have been many experiments about mantle tissue exchange and the results are from poor to full failures. I myself tried to use mantle from Pteria sterna in Pinctada mazatlanica and into other species such as the "Lion's Paw Scallop" (Nodipecten subnudosus) and it did not work. I mean...you have the specimens, the tools...and too many questions! You simply try! But you also see the results and then just stop trying.
Thanks for answering my questions, Douglas.

So happy to hear that there have been experiments trying that!!:arms:I knew it! It must be so much fun!! I guess it might be just too difficult for the oysters to accept tissue from another genus. After all, oysters have a powerful immune system, too.

Do you recall seeing anyone trying grafting P. Penguin's tissue into P. Sterna's oyster? At least they are in the same genus. And at least in plants, it may work. "Genetically identical clones and intra-species plants have a high success rate for grafting. Grafting between species of the same genus is sometimes successful. Grafting has a low success rate when performed with plants in the same family but in different genera. — Wikipedia"

If we think it further, can we isolate the epithelial cells, proliferate them, and then implant with bead? Mammal epithelial cells isolation and culture seems quite mature. Has anyone figured out the technology with oyster? If that works out, not only the tissue-exchange grafting may have a better chance, but the best quality pearls' traits can be (hopefully) more easily replicated on larger number of pearls. Although we know epithelial cells do not proliferate forever like cancer cells do, we can still get the oyster "breeds" like cat breeds and dog breeds.

With that said, I love the current way of harvesting the best tissue and implanting it directly. Actually I might prefer this way to a lab way even if the lab isolating-proliferating-grafting approach is already there. Variety, mystery, and surprise are all elements that contribute to the beauty of pearls. :)
 
Unfortunately, these two Pteria species live quite far apart from each other, so it is not very easy to try and do this. You would require having healthy, live individuals of both species next to each other for grafting to be possible...and this is not easy at all.

The Japanese tried for decades to produce In-Vitro cultured pearls by isolating epithelial mantle cells. What they discovered is that these cells possess a unique "plasticity" in their production: they can produce mucus, protein, calcite and nacre...but the reason why they produce any of these "products" is somewhat obscured by hormonal triggers. So, you need a special "Nacre producing Hormone" in order to induce the cells to do so...and if this is unavailable: you'll get mucus instead! (FYI: All cells LOVE to produce mucus!).
Since isolating a hormone or even synthetizing it is very expensive...they just said: Ok! Let's do it the true & proven way! So, we still have pearl farms instead of cold, harsh labs with petri dishes growing pearls.
 
live quite far apart from each other, so it is not very easy to try and do this.
-- That's what I thought... So I assume that has never been tried before. So hasn't P. fucata's tissue into P. Maxima, right?

The discoveries by the Japanes studies sound remarkable. So glad to hear that they succeeded in isolating epithelial mantle cells and culturing them! Looks like they wanted to do In-Vitro all the way to pearls. I was thinking just using the cultured epithelial cells, instead of whole pieces of tissues, to graft with beads into live oysters, which won't require human to provide hormone. Hope they have also tried what I thought already... 🙂

Thanks so much for bringing these insights to us, Douglas.👏 I have nowhere else to hear these captivating stories behind pearl research and farming.
 
Here is the set of Tahitian pearls I mentioned. I was particularlly looking for a set of shiny intense green/peacock's to make a tin-cup necklace to match the earring pearls, and I feel so lucky to have found this set. 😇

The "very peacock" one on the left of the biggest pearl doesn't look so peacock-y in person, and I love the two or three that are more bluish. Without a white background, in person they look all green at a glance. Very lustrous, too. In the uncompressed picture I can clearly see my sweater's pattern in the reflection.

One pic first, will probably post more later. Good night.✨
My NR Tahitian pearls set @StarryPearl.jpg
 
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another pic with better light:
My NR Tahitian pearls set pic2 @StarryPearl.jpg


and with the earring set :07::
My NR Tahitian pearls set with earring set @StarryPearl.jpg


This set was sold as a bracelet set of course, but my end goal for them is a tincup necklace on gold chain. I'm sure I will play with these pearls and whip up a bunch of different versions before they reach their destiny finally. :18:
 
Also wanted to share a freshwater pearl that I received yesterday. Its shape looks almost exactly like a whole abalone meat. It even has the part where abalone meat attaches to the shell!🤣 If you have ever separated a raw abalone's meat from its shell, or had whole abalone sashimi before, you will see what I mean. 😄

I call it my Abalone Meat Pearl. 🤪

Abalone Meat Pearl 1.jpg


Abalone Meat Pearl 2.jpg


Abalone Meat Pearl 3.jpg


Abalone Meat Pearl 4.jpg
 
-- That's what I thought... So I assume that has never been tried before. So hasn't P. fucata's tissue into P. Maxima, right?

The discoveries by the Japanes studies sound remarkable. So glad to hear that they succeeded in isolating epithelial mantle cells and culturing them! Looks like they wanted to do In-Vitro all the way to pearls. I was thinking just using the cultured epithelial cells, instead of whole pieces of tissues, to graft with beads into live oysters, which won't require human to provide hormone. Hope they have also tried what I thought already... 🙂

Thanks so much for bringing these insights to us, Douglas.👏 I have nowhere else to hear these captivating stories behind pearl research and farming.
I don't remember any studies of grafting between maxima and fucata...but both species can be found living in the same area in countries such as Indonesia, Australia, Myanmar, the Philippines.
You can find these papers online, and read the abstracts...sometimes this is all you need to read to understand the information produced in the article.
I am privileged that I was able to meet great scientists back in 1994 at Pearls '94. And I was able to learn what they were actually doing in their countries...and when I returned home I just unleashed it all: experiment upon experiment! And you do learn quite a bit by being wrong!
 
And thanks again for sharing the paper with us, @SteveM .
And to you for the incredible followup having a molecular background yourself! My contribution here is Google search related to the as-yet unrealized objective of sequencing white porcelanous (prismatic) pearls. To rehash an old thread, several years were spent here trying to prove or debunk hundreds of years of consistent reporting of non-nacreous pearls from the Nautilus shell, culminating in an erroneous GIA certificate for same. If anyone ever hears of progress in that area, please advise!
 
I don't remember any studies of grafting between maxima and fucata...but both species can be found living in the same area in countries such as Indonesia, Australia, Myanmar, the Philippines.
You can find these papers online, and read the abstracts...sometimes this is all you need to read to understand the information produced in the article.
I am privileged that I was able to meet great scientists back in 1994 at Pearls '94. And I was able to learn what they were actually doing in their countries...and when I returned home I just unleashed it all: experiment upon experiment! And you do learn quite a bit by being wrong!
That’s great advice. I wish one day I could have a chance to experiment with my own hands…

Just one more question about the Japanese’s research: Did they successfully create one single pearl in petri dishes?
 
About growing pearls in Petri dishes: No. They failed. They could not produce pearls.
And if I remember correctly: all they got were small globules of mucus!
 
Thanks for answering my questions, Douglas.

So happy to hear that there have been experiments trying that!!:arms:I knew it! It must be so much fun!! I guess it might be just too difficult for the oysters to accept tissue from another genus. After all, oysters have a powerful immune system, too.

Do you recall seeing anyone trying grafting P. Penguin's tissue into P. Sterna's oyster? At least they are in the same genus. And at least in plants, it may work. "Genetically identical clones and intra-species plants have a high success rate for grafting. Grafting between species of the same genus is sometimes successful. Grafting has a low success rate when performed with plants in the same family but in different genera. — Wikipedia"

If we think it further, can we isolate the epithelial cells, proliferate them, and then implant with bead? Mammal epithelial cells isolation and culture seems quite mature. Has anyone figured out the technology with oyster? If that works out, not only the tissue-exchange grafting may have a better chance, but the best quality pearls' traits can be (hopefully) more easily replicated on larger number of pearls. Although we know epithelial cells do not proliferate forever like cancer cells do, we can still get the oyster "breeds" like cat breeds and dog breeds.

With that said, I love the current way of harvesting the best tissue and implanting it directly. Actually I might prefer this way to a lab way even if the lab isolating-proliferating-grafting approach is already there. Variety, mystery, and surprise are all elements that contribute to the beauty of pearls. :)
Found this article that you may enjoy!
Xenografts between margaritifera and maxima:
https://www.academia.edu/2331410/Xe...?auto=download&email_work_card=download-paper
 
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