Pearl measurement question

pearlescence said:
So we don't use it every time we write the word 'pearl'
And, no, if you depart from CIBJO rules you won't go to prison in the UK - the pearl party people prove that all the time unfortunately
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You are liable for following those rules. You won't go to jail, but if you do get sued, the courts typically rely on the Blue Books from CIBJO. They are the governing world body for the jewelry industry. The pearl commission meets once per year, after a year of debates via email, and makes amendments to the book.
 
Noticed my contribution there on strand length - which has increased. But still short for most european necks
 
Okay Wendy, you have me curious-- short for most European necks? Do Europeans have thicker necks LOL? :p
Or are you saying Europeans like longer strands for some other reason?
 
jshepherd said:
You are liable for following those rules. You won't go to jail, but if you do get sued, the courts typically rely on the Blue Books from CIBJO. They are the governing world body for the jewelry industry. The pearl commission meets once per year, after a year of debates via email, and makes amendments to the book.
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That may be so in the US, but not here.
 
pearlescence said:
That may be so in the US, but not here.
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No, it's also the case in the UK. It's also the case in Germany. The national associations of the UK who are voting members are The National Association of Jewelers and Gem-A Gemmological Association. Commercial voting members in the UK include the Birmingham Assay Office, IJL, Gemfields, DeBeers UK, The Platinum Guild and several others. All of the commercial voting members have applied and joined and have done so in order to take part and exert influence on the different commissions. It is something you can join, and I believe it's 10,000 Euro per year.

You may be unaware because CIBJO doesn't put a tremendous amount of attention or resources to the cultured pearl industry, but they do with the diamond, coral, other gemstones and (strangely) the natural pearl categories. Labs such as SSEF (you're probably familiar with this European one) and GIA all rely on it, which is why members of those organizations are on the steering committees for nearly all types of gemstones.
 
I know what they do and they do it very well.
I was replying to your comment that the blue book would be cited in court here. I checked all my legal resources and it never has in a pearl case. (civil or criminal)
To be clear because we seem to be misunderstanding eachother. I have no problem with what CIBJO does, and it does it very well and I have no problem with following the standards.
The lawyer in me does however point out that the standards are vague - no requirement for measurement in mm and to what decimal place for example. Plus the stipulation that measurements should all be rounded down when normal scientific practice is to round up or down from 0.5. This would produce the anomaly that if you measure just in mm a 7.9mm pearl would be 7mm, right along with an exactly 7mm one.
The drafting is not as precise as perhaps it should or could be.
 
I linked to a court case in Germany - an important one that was pivotal for the cultured pearl industry. I don't know whether any civil or criminal cases might have happened in UK. I am not aware of any of them here either. If the case were to happen, however, they would use the rules of the Blue Book to settle the dispute.

The size rule is in place specifically because so many people give inaccurate measurements, such as calling a 7-8 mm strand 8.0 mm. That used to be a big problem. The current problem is describing full mm increments when they aren't - like 6.5-7.5 mm.
 
pearlescence said:
I don't know what the FTC or JVC are.
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Friendly advice... If you're selling in the USA, I'd make myself aware of the FTC and JVC.

You know the old adage about ignorance of the law... Be careful.
 
I am very careful about law..that's why I have a masters degree in law and used to teach post graduate law at various universities
Friendly advice back...how are you on the The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations, Do you know what TS is?
How about the The Dangerous Substances and preparations (Nickel) (Safety) regulations 2005 Or the Registration, Evaluation, Authorisation and Restriction of Chemicals Directive 2006?
The Hallmarking Acts....
Does your website conform to EU law?
 
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I appreciate the great background and info, Jeremy. Thanks much.
 
Perhaps others who live in other jurisdictions could contribute on their legal retail regimes- useful info

The essential difference in thinking between the American and EU regulatory regimes are that (mostly but not always) things are not banned unless they are definitely harmful. In the EU things are banned unless it can be demonstrated that they are safe.
This means that - for a non-pearl example which surprised even me - in the EU McDonalds fries have potato, oil and salt. In America i think it is 19 additives including milk powder. A few moments on google might surprise.
 
I think a 3.8mm pearl should be described as a 3.8mm pearl. It's not rocket science. I find it sad that some people seem to need to play with the facts to do business. Business is based on trust.
 
I think a lot of it comes down to how many decimal places do you go out to, before it becomes meaningless to the consumer? And how do you round? And what if it's a strand of pearls compared to a single pearl?
 
Using the 3.8 mm analogy, if the pearl was 3.89 and it was only measured withing 1/10th of a millimeter, then the pearl would measure 3.8 and not 3.9 - rounded down.

Describing strands in a range is not an issue unless the strand does not have pearls completely within that range. Anytime you see someone calling a strand of freshwater pearls 7-8 mm, for example, they are most likely cheating on the size.
 
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Rounding down 3.89 to 3.8 is an operation which would be unique to the pearl industry. All of science and mathematics would round it up.
 
My real bug bear remains "Chinese size" 9-10mm which is, at best 8.5-9.5mm. Many companies will then sell this item as a 9-10mm strand or even as a 10mm strand. It simply is not. This is not a measurement rounding issue. It is deception pure and simple.
 
LP See my post 17 in this thread for the problems it can cause!
It is however, one way discerning shoppers can tell who actually goes to the wholesalers up the chain (ie as near as possible to farm/factory)to buy and who just sends an order to some nameless website.Even some HK wholesalers are better than others at measuring. One very -very - well known one on here had its calipers calibrated to measure 0.5mm larger and really got annoyed when I brought out mine to use. I just don't shop with them any more. Their stand was noticeably quiet at the last show because many are getting fed up with their airs and attitude, as well as their absurdly high prices
 
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