Newbie, knotting techniques and thread choice

[double-knotty]

Hello to all! I'm new to the Forum though I've read it for some time before I registered. I haven't seen this addressed, though I've looked through a number of posts.

When I started knotting pearls it was to restring a strand for a friend. I simply bought a card of thread with a needle and created single knots. And that's how I've always done it. But recently I was talking to a jeweler who told me she DOUBLE knots! She uses TWO strands of very fine silk and ties a little square knot between the pearls. Well, now, I'm just infatuated with this method.

Does anyone else do this? Is there any reason not to do this?

And one technical question: I strung a long ('m talking 60") strand of very good quality freshwater pearls for a customer, but after a short time the silk broke. Then I tried Dandyline. It broke too.
Can anyone recommend a tough alternative? I did NOT knot this necklace because I was using a much thicker thread than usual.

THANKS for your help and patience with a newbie.

Double-knotty

 

[danachit]

Hi, yes, a lot of us would use a double strand, knotted at one end. This post will most likely be moved to the Lowly Beaders. Happy knotting! Dana

 

[Nerida]

Try the double strand - it will be so much easier to get your knots lovely and close. Doesn't sound like you've had too muchtrouble to date, though.

Regarding the tougher thread alternative... some of us here use a braided fishing line, Powerpro in either a 10lb (small pearls) 20lb (mid pearls) or occasionally 30lb (klonks) test size. It does handle well. But I think it is made by the same people as Dandyline? Knotty? Caitlin?

 

[Nerida]

PS welcome to the forum!

 

[knotty panda]

Hi Knotty. (Never said THAT before!) Define "fine" silk? I've got some dressmaker's 50 wt. around here somewhere. I think that's an all purpose size. I'll try it sometime and let you know what I think about it. May take me a couple of weeks, though. My plate's kinda full right now. Why not to do it? It's double the work. I can't say it would be any stronger. Caitlin? Your turn.

 

[Nerida]

Knotty P - that's what I think about double knotting, too - it's almost a bit more than double the work too, cos it takes a bit of effort to get those little knots perfectly on top of one another rather than becoming two single knots in a row (or maybe that's just me..)

 

[pearlescence]

Apart from sounding very impressive, does a double knot make the piece stronger/more secure/ more attractive to look at/more anything?
I think there are as many ways to knot a pearl necklace as there are people knotting pearl necklaces.

 

[Cathybear]

Sometimes I use double knotting if the hole in the pearl needs it. Occasionally the thickest silk that will go through the hole twice is a touc too thin, but the silk size up is too thick. Double knots will stop the pearl slipping over the knot.

 

[Sueki]

I've tried double knotting but can't get on with it at all.
It's probably me being cack-handed though....
Lately I've been using Powerpro more and more because I like that it doesn't stretch and is stronger than silk for long ropes.
Too many times I've got near to the end of a rope and the silk broke.....

Hi Knotty P..

 

[Nerida]

The only times I've double knotted was when the drill hole needed the larger knot, but couldn't accommodate 4 strands of larger thread (for the 2 pearls either end..). Hate doing it because it takes so long, and you know, one of those little knots just ends up not sitting where you want it over the first one... tedious..

Sueki, I would love to use silk, it feels so much nicer than powerpro, but I feel my results are more consistent with powerpro. Knotty (P) do you still use silk more than anything else?

 

[Cathybear]

Oh I love knotting with silk. I occasionally use synthetics, like superlon, and just got some powerpro. I haven't had silk break... just knot itself in an inconvenient place or get into a snaggle, but mostly it's fine (might be me when it misbehaves eh?)

 

[Nerida]

Cathy - what is your favourite silk?

 

[Cathybear]

Guderbrod on the reel

 

[double-knotty]

Wow. Thanks for all the feedback. I'm learning so much!
I'd love to use the PowerPro...now I just have to FIND it.

As to why I like the double knot, a true square knot won't become 2 separate knots and I often use a fine silk, so it gives me a better appearance (I think) than the single knot. Knotting the FW pearls with those tiny holes can require such thin silk that it produces really tiny knots. That's why I like the double knots.

I REALLY appreciate the generosity of everyone here in answering this newbie's questions! I hope in time I can contribute too.

 

[Cathybear]

Try different silk thicknesses too I most often use F or FF, occasionally E (that's all Guderbrod) The main thing is use the thickest thread you can comfortably get through the drill holes twice.

 

[jerin]

Hi double-knotty,

I use mostly size E (Gudebrod) because few of my pearl?s drillholes allow size F. If the pearls are heavy Power Pro is the right choice. As I am living in Europe, I order from Angler?s Center in California. Here is there email: orders@anglerscenter.com. It is possible that you can get the Power Pro somewhat cheaper in other places, if Caitlin sees this post, she certainly is going to reply as she is one of the first PG-ers who used Power Pro. Good luck and welcome to the forum!

 

[Caitlin]

Hi dknot
Welcome!
Double knots do not make the thread stronger-they're for big holes and if you like the big knot look.

I am a PowerPro fiend, the more I use it, the better I like it. I think you can just type it into Google, but ebay stores "high on beads" and maybe beadaholique have it. So does Cabela's sport shops (big spools), so only order from Cabela's when you know you will use 1,500 feet!

The break issue: I recently reknotted a previously broken necklace with white PowerPro and it broke about 5 minutes after I sent it back.(mortifying- I still suffer when I think about it, because it was the second time I had to redo something for this gentleman.)

One thing was suspicious, it looked like the second break was in the same place as the first. Hmmm. I had the thought it could be a rough edge on the pearl it broke on. So I looked very close and felt the holes involved. Voila! I found a rough edge! I filed it a bit, and restrung it.

Dandyline is made by Beadalon. It is some kind of spectra thread and comes in silvery black and white. It is soft,like silk, and needs a light waxing or it tangles quickly. It is my second choice after PowerPro because PoPro comes in only white and moss green- though there is a lot of variation in how dark the green is- and Dandyline has that pretty black with silver highlights.

PowerPro is also spectra, but made differently than Dandyline. It is made of tiny super long filaments braided into a tube shape. When it is knotted, the thread is compressed a bit and makes a small neat knot.The breakage point on it is immense compared to silk. It can get wet everyday and still not stretch. Silk's only advantage is that it comes in endless colors.

For double knotting (I always use two threads) I pass the pearls through twice, then tighten by pulling the two threads apart until the knot is snug. I don't use any tools to do it.

Good luck!

 

[Caitlin]

I just found this technique in Ruth Poris' book "Step by step bead stringing" on page 29. She only shows an illustration, no words, but it clearly shows how it looks when you put the pearls through the string hole twice.

 

[knotty panda]

Sueki, I would love to use silk, it feels so much nicer than powerpro, but I feel my results are more consistent with powerpro. Knotty (P) do you still use silk more than anything else?

You bet! As long as there are little silk worms (and someone else to unwrap the cocoons) I'm a silk gal! I think Slraeps said it best "Natural things work best together." Maybe not a direct quote, but you get the idea.

Sueki, what is cack-handed? This is not something you want to leave to my imagination. LOL.

I love this forum, all these folks with so many backgrounds and one common passion.

How cool is that!

 

[flycatcher]

I am a PowerPro fiend, the more I use it, the better I like it. I think you can just type it into Google, but ebay stores "high on beads" and maybe beadaholique have it. So does Cabela's sport shops (big spools), so only order from Cabela's when you know you will use 1,500 feet!

Caitlin,

Actually, Cabelas has the 150 yard spools available on their web site.
Try searching for PowerPro and you will see all the choices. They have this stuff available in all sizes from 5 lb test all the way up to 250 lb test. They seem to have Red, Moss Green, Hi-vis Yellow, and of course, White. Hope that helps.

--Stephen