Nautilus pearl

I'd even go a step further...

In different literatures then relating to pearls-as-jewelry, 'nacre' describes 'shell material' in general. I would expect this usage to spill over in a more academic approach to pearls too.

Nautilus - with its particular archaic 'nacre' structure, is a perfect pretext for this.
Anecdote: My Madrile?a mother-in-law, a great pearl fanatic, has always been under the impression that madre perla and n?car are not synonymous, although unable to define the differences. Nonetheless, it seems that at some point a distinction has been made.

I commented regarding Dr. Tom's inimitable certified Nautilus Pearl that it portrayed a miniature universe. That it is a UNIVERSAL pearl appears to be a distinct possibility.

But it's simply incredible that this pearl, reputed according to Dr. Tom by parties in and around the Sulu Sea to be found only once every few decades, should be so perfect?
 
#1.
Anecdote: My Madrile?a mother-in-law, a great pearl fanatic, has always been under the impression that madre perla and n?car are not synonymous, although unable to define the differences. Nonetheless, it seems that at some point a distinction has been made.

...

#2.
But it's simply incredible that this pearl, reputed according to Dr. Tom by parties in and around the Sulu Sea to be found only once every few decades, should be so perfect…



#1.

Isn't that right! :) The 'other literatures' I was thinking of when writing the previous post were in the natural sciences and materials science. That shell material (trying for a neutral term here) may be called by several different words in different languages hadn't crossed my mind! I can only account for English, French and Romanian aside your Spanish. 'Bet there are speakers of at least a few more posting 'round here! :cool:

Without thorough investigation, it sounds like each has a couple of common nuns for shell stuff, each more likely to be used in some context then another. But I can't find any common noun specific for the porcelaneous (ok, that's one specialized description, but hardly in common usage) shells in any! Perhaps because those shells had that much less use over time?

If the explanation stands, then it looks like the situation is similar to the state of the pearl vocabulary relevant here - those 'other pearls' being outsiders to the 'nacre establishment', with status questioned (not sure why, since these are such scarce oddities anyway; unless there's a flood of conch, 'dacna and bailer pearls somewhere, just waiting to flood over traditional pearly pearls into oblivion, LOL!). Can't imagine that knowing that this millennium there can be two buckets of conch pearls overall, makes these sound less valuable then never making the estimate :rolleyes: But again... who knows?

Oh well... some discussions are way more fun then others! :) regardless of practicality.



#2.

Is there any single factor making round-ness more likely for 'normal' bivalve-originating pearls? (only ever herd some myths of this)

It does sound extreme (wrote as much myself up this thread) that with so much nautilus shell harvested, there should be such few pearls. I wonder whether anyone can do that sort of math right, though. And if so, if anyone would put the necessary work to get such a contentious result out in the open! No wonder there really are no comparable estimates attempted about any gem material at all. Would not hope for sudden exception about the latest addition to the roster of natural pearls species...

Besides,

- we'd need a 'nautilus doctor' in the house for this one: perhaps start with the story of how these critters even grow their pearls! Bet it is a rather different story then the usual bivalve's discussed here so far.

and

- ratios of 'one in a million' are nearly inconceivable about anything! (not that there's any logic in this, of course) Perhaps that's one reason why no one really bothered to count how scarce precious stones and natural pears are 'exactly' - if not 'one in a million', then probably still some inconceivable ratio to whatever (?) proxy .

Hm... at a second thought, the matter seems less worth questioning then it did ten posts ago (or so).
 
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It does sound extreme (wrote as much myself up this thread) that with so much nautilus shell harvested, there should be such few pearls.

Besides,

- we'd need a 'nautilus doctor' in the house for this one: perhaps start with the story of how these critters even grow their pearls! Bet it is a rather different story then the usual bivalve's discussed here so far.

and

- ratios of 'one in a million' are nearly inconceivable about anything!
Benefit of the doubt: Perhaps the fact that the shell itself is the commercial commodity and not the meat results in some 'babys thrown out with the bath water?'

Mr. Scarratt will presumably supply complete Nautilus pearl anatomy in his 120 pages. If he does not, there will be no credibility. The longer the anticipated substantiation is withheld, the higher the bar will become. In any case, and especially given Pearl Professor.Com's premature gullibility, we're well beyond the hook, line and sinker stage at this point.

Dr. Tom, Jeremy Shepherd and others here are in possession of information that might enlighten but for its suppression. How much money does Mr. Scarratt stand to make from this paper anyway? I'd be more than pleased to pay for my copy, full price, in its current draft form.

Regardless, the certified pearl is a beautiful and miraculous work of nature.

Perhaps it's time for another 'pregnant pause.'
 
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Dr. Tom, Jeremy Shepherd and others here are in possession of information that might enlighten but for its suppression. How much money does Mr. Scarratt stand to make from this paper anyway? I'd be more than pleased to pay for my copy, full price, in its current draft form.

Hi,

To the best of my knowledge, of both the manuscript and Mr. Scarratt himself, any delay is due to adding important information, not for financial reasons. I used to tease people about how much money I made from one of my own books by saying, "Yes, and I've made so much money from this book that....(pause for effect, while their eyes involuntarily widen with jealous greed)...I can buy a Starbuck's coffee every third Tuesday...(all laugh with nervous relief!) But that was my economic truth at the time. I hope Mr. Scarratt does a whole lot better than that.

Regards to all,
Tom
 
Not Cancer

Not Cancer

Perhaps it should now be called THE NOT-ILUS PEARL?

Slraep

Hello to all,

Really, quite a brilliant play on words by the doubter.

But if the Not-Ilus pearl did not come out of a nautilus shell, a type of pearl which is recorded in official records going back a century, men threaten to kill someone for lying. Scientifically, this is irrelevant, but it does reflect the incentives to be honest. Of course threats could be mere posturing, however life in those seas can be violent.

Within a few miles, 9 people, including 2 or 3 Red Cross workers, have been kidnapped and continue to be held for ransom for almost 100 days, despite 7,000 soldiers on a manhunt. Hunting for pearls at sea, one comes into contact with such desperate pirates as the kidnappers.

Regardless of the background stories, and putting self-interest aside, wouldn't I put my confidence in someone who has inspected up to almost a million pearls a year, who heads the most respected laboratory on our planet, and who sought consultation from colleagues? Or should I count on a Flat Earth society, that reckons by sorcery?

When one of my patients needed surgery for brain cancer, we used every tool available to be sure before we cut. Had a doubter stood outside the operating room chanting, "Not Cancer" on each and every case, once or twice they would have been right, but we would have placed little predictive value on such opinions.

Pfaw! It's late and I've got too much to do before BaselWorld. I'll talk with a guy in Europe who will show me his possible Nautilus, I hope with a nice swirl.

Regards to all,
Tom
 
Hello to all,

Really, quite a brilliant play on words by the doubter.

Thank you, but I am not the only doubter and not the only one who is capable of a brilliant play on words(Hi Steve).

Also, Jeremy Norris has a quite brilliant play on a picture.

Slraep
 
Not sure about you, but I need a summary of this thread by now. Much as I get it, the argument runs like this:

- some non-nacreous pearls have flame patterns (property varying with the species' nacre deposition mechanism, and the shape of the pearl - at least)

- some nautilus pearls identified by GIA Thailand show pattern with the associated optical effects

- direct overhead light makes a ring-like reflection on the flame pattern (following the contour of the pearls); transmitted light does not, but emphasizes refraction and shows of the pattern

-------

This lot tells me that the presence of a 'flame' pattern on a non-nacreous pearl does not identify the species of origin - far from it. And that no study describing what characteristics - visible or not, are suitable for such identification has been published yet. No indication that once a method for positive identification in laboratory conditions is described, it would help with sleuthing either.

Now, what is under debate? There's hardly enough information for a controversy here, at least by this count...
 
Thank you, but I am not the only doubter and not the only one who is capable of a brilliant play on words(Hi Steve).

Also, Jeremy Norris has a quite brilliant play on a picture.

Slraep
there.
notiluspearls.jpg

The two nautilus pearls as seen on the Pearl Professiors blog on the left, JNorris clam pearl on the right.

Without the finger on the picI would have let you guess ;)
 
Geez, and now Effisk seems to have a brilliant play at a comparison montage!!!! ( I forgot to mention that he too is capable of a brilliant play on words.);)

Slraep
 
But if the Not-Ilus pearl did not come out of a nautilus shell, a type of pearl which is recorded in official records going back a century, men threaten to kill someone for lying. Scientifically, this is irrelevant, but it does reflect the incentives to be honest. Of course threats could be mere posturing, however life in those seas can be violent.

Tom

Umm...just a few questions. How would the buyer of a nautilus pearl one hundred years ago determine if it was the real thing or not? What lab would he have sent it to for a monograph? On the other hand, maybe it was the doubter that got whacked for raining on the buyer's "nautilus pearl parade"? That's why history shows that there were very, very, very few nautilus pearl skeptics one hundred years ago, I believe.

Slraep
 
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?what is under debate?
It is certainly not the existence of Nautilus Pearls, as any animal (or plant?or dragons, for that matter) is capable of gastric or other concretions that can and historically have been called 'pearls' (at risk of remembering some of our past diversions in this area?).

We have certainly documented the fact that the 'Nautilus Pearls' presented to Pearl-Professor by a Natural Pearl collector and author are clam pearls. Thanks, JNorris and Effisk.

Aside from issues of self-interest, here are three main issues from my viewpoint:

1) Pearl composition. Nacre vs. calcareous concretion?or some weird and unique, heretofore unknown, hybrid? Flame pattern as shown in Dr. Tom's wondrous sphere is uniquely associated with calcareous pearls, whereas the Nautilus shell is nacreous.

2) Incidence of occurrence. Attested to be found only once in multiple decades throughout the Sulu Sea region, why would the only such known and certified example be round and perfectly marked? May we please see an imperfect specimen?

3) Credibility of certification. Your cue, Mr. Scarratt. (Respectful regrets that my non-trade status may result in untoward irreverence. I'm still very much interested in purchasing the monograph as-is, without last-minute additions or revisions. After all, the pearl has already been certified.)
 
That Old Tyme Testing

That Old Tyme Testing

Umm...just a few questions. How would the buyer of a nautilus pearl one hundred years ago determine if it was the real thing or not?

By bringing that day, as required by law upon serious punishment, his newly found nautilus with shell and witnesses to Sultan, for which he would be rewarded, in the case of some large P. maxima pearls, quite handsomely.

Even today, legend has it that Sultan Bolkhiah of Brunei has a standing offer of $5 million for a Dragon Pearl, which seems to be a translation for a particular type of sea-creature whose pearl, when worn against the body, makes a man immortal. This animal supposedly lives only in Sarawak's mangrove swamps. I should try to find this type of pearl.

Best to all. Out of touch for a couple of weeks.
Datu Tom
 
DrTKStern said:
By bringing that day, as required by law upon serious punishment, his newly found nautilus with shell and witnesses to Sultan, for which he would be rewarded, in the case of some large P. maxima pearls, quite handsomely.

Well sure but there was great incentive to be a witness back then as there would be now, especially if you were poor and had 10 children to feed or your mistress was bugging you for more jewels, the latest designer haute couture fashions and a bigger apartment. Things have not changed much in a hundred years. Good thing we have labs nowadays. And even then sometimes the lab reports don't cut it.

Interesting though how it says that large P.maxima pearls were rewarded quite handsomely, more than for a nautilus pearl. I guess size mattered back then too.

Even today, legend has it that Sultan Bolkhiah of Brunei has a standing offer of $5 million for a Dragon Pearl, which seems to be a translation for a particular type of sea-creature whose pearl, when worn against the body, makes a man immortal. This animal supposedly lives only in Sarawak's mangrove swamps. I should try to find this type of pearl.

That would mean the finder of a Dragon Pearl would have to bring along the bonafide Sea Dragon it was taken from and the witnesses who saw it being done. I see why "legend has it". Also, 5 million dollars seems a little paltry in exchange for immortality. Cheap, even. I think more than a couple of people who post to P-G could afford that.

Actually, it would be a rather frightening deal to be the finder/seller or witness even if it were an authentic Sea Dragon pearl, if two weeks after having split 5 million dollars, the Sultan suddenly keeled over from some malady. Widow's revenge. No, let us leave the Sea Dragons alone lest they are poached to extinction. Not worth having a head chopped off if the legend is wrong.

Slraep
 
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Difference Detection

Difference Detection

Quote:
Originally Posted by effisk
Iit does look similar!

Yes, now look for the differences. On a pathology slide taken from a tumor, the differences between cancer and non-cancer can be EXTREMELY subtle...ask any Pathologist. Sometimes it can take young doctors years of training to be able to see the differences. Similarly with radiographic imaging.

In comparison, if you look carefully, you can immediately begin to see distinctions between my Nautilus pearl and the Not-Ilus pearls. Look at mine, look at theirs. 100% of the time you would be able to pick mine on the second try of any lineup.

Regards,
Dr. Tom

PS: I'll try to report from BaselWorld, perhaps on a million dollar wristwatch, the pearl market there, and the gem markets where some say 70% of the world gem business takes place.
 
Dragon

Dragon

Actually, it would be a rather frightening deal to be the finder/seller or witness even if it were an authentic Sea Dragon pearl, if two weeks after having split 5 million dollars, the Sultan suddenly keeled over from some malady. Widow's revenge. No, let us leave the Sea Dragons alone lest they are poached to extinction. Not worth having a head chopped off if the legend is wrong.

Slraep

Oh! Excellent! This particular Sultan ranks in the top richest men on earth, and he probably makes $5 million an hour as Sultan of Brunei; so while it would be sad if he died--and I hope not because of some unknown curse on the Dragon Pearl-- it would not be a hardship. If I find the pearl and that Dragon, I vow not to kill it; but to bring it in for viewing and certification by the Sultan himself, and the Smithsonian, as the first authenticated Dragon.

What a cool legend, eh? I have my staff collecting as many such ancient legends as possible to collate in a book or story. Poached to extinction indeed! Ha Ha Ha. So funny!

Best regards to all,
Datu Tom
 
While I was away, you went full tilt on nautilus pearls. I saw one of Jeremy Norris's tridacna squamosa pearls in person on Saturday and it had the flame "ring of fire". I have to admit that they do look very similar to the nautilus pearls.

I'm sure that Ken will have the definitive answer and we can all ponder and debate to our heart's content when the monograph is released. I know some of you are frustrated, but I think we are lucky to see one of nature's last mysteries unfold in our time. This is fun! ;)

Cheers,
Blaire
 
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