knotting technique question

[Katbran]

So...just a question out of interest. There are a couple of ways to use two threads in knotting :

1. String the pearls all onto the thread, using about 1/3 the total length. Then attach the clasp as normal and start back through the pearls with that long end of the thread and start knotting back through the pearls by knotting onto the strand holding the pearls.

2. Put the three pearls onto the doubled thread add the clasp and work back through those three, knotting two strands over the existing double strand until you pass the third pearl and then start to add pearls onto that doubled thread and knot using the two threads.

Obviously these are basic descriptions just to set two styles apart and not to instruct !

I use the second method...but in watching a video of the first I have to say it looks pretty darn easy...the knots must be much smaller as it's only a single thread wrapping around a single thread.
Does anyone use the #1 method ? On everything or just tiny pearls?

Just curious

 

[SunSeeker]

Hi Katbran, can you provide the video link that you referenced for method #1? I double the thread, string on 3 pearls, gimp and clasp, knot those using ovehand knots, then add the remaining pearls and continue knotting.

 

[pattye]

Seem to recall seeing a you tube video long ago of the method you describe in #1. I think it was called "Japanese Method."

When I did a search this reference on the Fire Mountain Beads site came up. I have never tried it, and likely wouldn't ever do so. (Because I am so used to #2.) So if you try this method, please let us know how it works for you. Seems to be a "half hitch" that's being made between the beads or pearls, instead of an actual knot. Maybe this would be an opportunity to use powerpro or fireline in a heavy weight?

I use method #2 also. Working with 2 strands together gives double the break strength of the thread, which seems important to me, and allows control of the tension on the stringing threads. Besides I feel a tidy little knot is very attractive.

 

[MelT]

I use the #1. only because I am hopeless with knotting it the old fashion way. I am still a novice at knotting and will keep trying to practice the old one, because the #1 method does give a different looking knot. I also do no. 2 though...I string the last 3 pearl and the clasp and go back through it..
Question: does the look of the knot really matter?

I just had an appendectomy last weekend and have 2 weeks of rest and forced to sit and wait to recover...so I have started knotting some necklace ..
more practice time for me I guess...

 

[lisa c]

Have a comfy recovery MelT ~~~~~~~~~~~...

(those are smooth-recovery waves, like a warm hug)

 

[Pearl Dreams]

I tried using the lark's-head (cow hitch) knot but didn't like the way the knot was more bulky on one side. It was noticeable.
For illustration, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cow_hitch

Half-hitch is a simple overhand knot-- see illustration here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half_hitch

 

[pattye]

MelT, wishing you a speedy recovery from your surgery! Two weeks of knotting and you will have holiday gifts for all the women in your family!

Pearl Dreams, thanks for the knot types.

Here is an interesting description of pearl knotting 1908, on Keri Pearls website.

 

[pattye]

MelT, Great topic for discussion~I'll give my thoughts later as my G'daughter is coming to play and go to lunch~

Question: does the look of the knot really matter?

 

[SunSeeker]

Hi MeLT, best wishes for a quick recovery!

Your question, "does the look of the knot really matter? " is a great one! In my opinion, I think it's a personal decision unique to everyone. All I know is the longer I knot necklaces, the more persnickety I get about my own knots. And I when I go back and look at some of my earlier efforts, I just want to cut them up and start over! I want the knots to look consistant in terms of size and placement, with each one planted firmly against each pearl. And I don't want them to be any larger than necessary to effectively cover the hole and secure than pearl. ..all of this is much easier said than done! On the other hand, I also like the look of larger knots with gemstones as well as macrame knotting (see the J Hunter Fiji website) ....hmmm, macrame, ...might be a good idea for a project at Ruckus 2015!

 

[MelT]

MelT, wishing you a speedy recovery from your surgery! Two weeks of knotting and you will have holiday gifts for all the women in your family!

that is what I thought and have finally made my grandma's Christmas gift
View attachment 31922View attachment 31923

It's turning to be a nice thread though...looking forward on everybody's thoughts on Knots...

 

[Katbran]

MelT - Hope you are feeling better soon !
Like I said , I use the second method as well. But after I read about the #1 Japanese knotting technique I thought...hmmm that sounds a lot easier and the knots might be smaller. Mine for some reason seem a tiny bit big to me but maybe I'm just comparing the Beaders Secret to silk thread knots? (Was drooling over some Kalis necklaces at the mall the other day ... that's what set me down this 'knotty' question.)

 

[pattye]

Katbran,

How did the knotting look on the Kalis necklaces? Please tell us more about them! Lengths, types of pearls, clasps and all!

On classic strands I'd say my goals are similar to the ones Sunseeker mentioned. Small knots, firmly seated between pearls with no wiggle room, no fraying or fuzz. (Remember, I've been knotting for about 6-7 years only.) In my experience, the size of the drill holes heavily influences what size thread you will use and in turn the size of the knot. Using a thread that is slightly darker or the same as the pearls keeps the focus on the pearls, emphasizing their roundness, with the knots receding into the background. With a classic strand, my goal is to have the eye flow over the pearls and not stop on the knots.

It's absolutely personal choice, of course, going all out with bright and contrasting thread colors, mixing in gemstones, allowing one's creative side to explore all sorts of combinations! Of course, being able to do the knotting ourselves means we can play with an idea until we are satisfied with the combination. Something I plan to do more of in the future!

Our Sarah of Kojima Pearl comes to mind; she combines pearls with contrasting thread hues with great flair, imo.

Agree, SunSeeker, amazing variety of heavier cord options, including suede and leather, better availability of large hole pearls, too!

MelT, could you please repost your photos? For some reason they didn't upload.

 

[MelT]

Pattye,
here is the picture that did not load..my grandma's present

 

[MelT]

Here is the video of Jane Gordon demonstrating pearl knotting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Vzw1gePf0w
It's the one I have tried doing for my grandma's necklace. She uses an overhand knot twice in between pearls. I tried knotting my Edison pearl necklace yesterday too, and have used Griffin silk thread no. 2. that is the thickest I could fit in those big pearls. I had cut the needle attached to it and used a beading needle to double the thread into the pearls to allow me to do the overhand knot. The knots are just big enough to cover the whole of the pearls. I also have used a dark pink thread. The pearls are snug and no wriggle room in between the knots. I also have to mention that I used a Japanese made needle that is as thin as the actual needle in the griffin cord and does not have a lump at the end and does not make the fold of the two thread bulky as it has a twist at the end to make it more flat. I have tried it with the beadsmith needle and did not work as the end of the needle is bulky. Unfortunately, my husband threw the package with the last one inside...

Here is what it looks like...

 

[MelT]

On the other hand, I also like the look of larger knots with gemstones as well as macrame knotting (see the J Hunter Fiji website) ....hmmm, macrame, ...might be a good idea for a project at Ruckus 2015!

I have looked and drooled at Hunter Fiji website over those macrame too...That will be my next goal to learn.

 

[lisa c]

Well done!

 

[SunSeeker]

Your necklaces are beautiful! Very nicely done! And I love the clasp; I have also used a similar style myself.

Also, thanks for sharing the video. I'll have to try Jane Gordon's method and compare the look of the knots to the traditional method. By the way, I don't use any tweezers or any other tools when I knot (thanks, Caitlin!) so it goes a little faster. But with JG's method I see that you can save time at the beginning without having to back-knot and glue. Also, with JD's method you don't have the 4 threads going back through the first and last 3 pearls, so that's another idea to consider. Interested to hear what others think of this method.

 

[pattye]

MelT,

Lovely necklaces and beautiful pearls, love the clasps and excellent looking knots, too! I am curious to watch the whole video, Jane is quite entertaining! Want to try her method also.

 

[Katbran]

MelT .. love the strands and that's a great clasp as well. I have a couple of them but have not used them yet. I'm interested in the Japanese needle .. what site did you find them on ? I don't do much with smaller pearls but a tiny needle could be handy.

Now I'm going to go watch that video !

Watched it ! That is the method #1 that I mentioned. Now I do have to try it !

 

[LLoydsJewelry]

Seem to recall seeing a you tube video long ago of the method you describe in #1. I think it was called "Japanese Method."

When I did a search this reference on the Fire Mountain Beads site came up. I have never tried it, and likely wouldn't ever do so. (Because I am so used to #2.) So if you try this method, please let us know how it works for you. Seems to be a "half hitch" that's being made between the beads or pearls, instead of an actual knot. Maybe this would be an opportunity to use powerpro or fireline in a heavy weight?

I use method #2 also. Working with 2 strands together gives double the break strength of the thread, which seems important to me, and allows control of the tension on the stringing threads. Besides I feel a tidy little knot is very attractive.

i posted the Japanese method described, but took it down to do an improved video about this soon. In my opinion the only difference between a half hitch and a pearl overhand knot is that anytime an overhand knot is onto something through the loop it is a half hitch. So when you begin a strand passing your cord through gimp, and knot to begin stringing, this is a overhand knot onto the line running through and is now a half hitch.

I modified my method from the fire mountain tutorial by putting all the beads on the line then bring them up one at a time for knotting after passing lhrough the gimp and clasp at beginning end.s.