double strand 10mm natural pearls...

[papatom]

i have a double strand of pearls..(111) all 10mm and color matched...my grandpa, a diamond setter, made them for my grandma....my wife won't wear them...too big and heavy...so i'm thinking of seeing what $$ they'll bring...the clasp is platinum and diamonds and my grandpa made it himself.
I have attached some pictures I took...one of them is of an xray my dentist just did for me...although only some of the pearls were xrayed...they show clear....supporting my memory of hearing that they are natural, not cultured..I heard this my whole life...
it's about a 20 inch strand or so...well 2 strands as you can see...
any comments or suggestions?
thanks

 

[jshepherd]

The x-rays are not much of a help in that photo, and I am pretty certain that my gut feeling is right on this one. But before bursting any bubbles, do you want to chime in on this Zeide. Zeide should be able to give you a definitive answer.

 

[Zeide Erskine]

ADMIN SAYS THIS POST IS WORTHLESS. THE PEARLS BELOW ARE NOT NATURAL-PROBABLY AKOYAS, AND THAT IS AN EBAY PHOTO.

Hi,

The x-rays are not the right resolution. I think you may need to have those professionally tested and appraised. Typically a photo of naturals would show orient. Your picture doesn't. The lack of orient alone would be a flag item since that indicates chemical bleaching and naturals are never chemically bleached. I recommend sending them to a qualified gem lab for authentication.

Edit: I may also add that your x-ray is not of the pearls your are showing. The beads in your x-ray are round and natural pearls are not. Moreover, the resolution is so low that you cannot even see a drill hole.

I am attaching a typical digital picture of a double strand of 10mm natural freshwater pearls from Siberia taken indoors under strong daylight lamp plus flash. Note the shape and surface deviations.

Zeide

 

[papatom]

thanks

thanks

I appreciate the replys....and respectfully i would correct two points.
first...these are the pearls of the xray...I stood and watched it done at my dentists office...we laid them on the chair and slipped the dental xray plate under them...then moved to a different section and did it again.
I'm fine with the resolution isn't good enough...no problem...I was trying...and admittidly don't know anything of what I was doing.
secondly...these pearls have NOT ever been bleached. nope, I'm sure of it. the digital pictures i posted had to be trimmed down to fit on the board, "periscope" and so i used them here as well...I apologize for the poor pictures. My camera shoots 7.1 mega pixels and I don't mind trying a better picture.....
any tips on what to do to give a better picture so you can see them better? I'll try....
I've been reading the posts and honestly, I'm not trying to argue, I only know what I know...and I'm 100% sure of these two facts.
as for what I don't know???well that's a ton...I'm not even sure of all the terms both esteemed moderators are using...that's how little I do know.
So, don't give up on me...I'll take suggestions...and try to improve the presentation.
thanks
ps..the drill hole doesn't show I guess, because there is a string going thru it with a knot on each side....holding the holes on the side and the xray was shot from the top so you wouldn't see the drill hole.... and these pearls ARE round...and they are not beads....
thanks

 

[jshepherd]

My take on the x-ray is similar. Natural pearls would not x-ray perfectly clear, and they certainly would not be perfectly round. You should be able to see streaks or organic substance, and at least see the drill hole.

Regarding the strand, I am confused over the size. You mention the strands are 10mm, and the length is 20-inches. This does not add up. Either the strand is quite a bit longer than 20-inches, or the size is substantially smaller than 10mm. A non-graduated strand of 10mm pearls should have approximately 46-48 pearls. The outer strand has 57, and the inner strand has 54.
What method did you use to measure the diameter of the pearls?
As for the shape and surface, I have never seen naturals that look that spherical and clean - especially in a double strand. Freshwater pearls (back in the day) were not that round or large as well. That would leave Akoya - but the size is too large. The x-ray does show perfect rounds, and the pearls look perfectly round in the picture on my screen's resolution.

My honest take, if the necklace is indeed quite old (50 years or so), is that it is not composed of genuine pearls, cultured or natural.

I would really suggest having a lab take a look at the strand. Get them tested. Either you have a strand of pearls valuable enough to retire on, or your simply have a fancy clasp.

 

[jshepherd]

ps..the drill hole doesn't show I guess, because there is a string going thru it with a knot on each side....holding the holes on the side and the xray was shot from the top so you wouldn't see the drill hole.... and these pearls ARE round...and they are not beads....

This is not what Zeide means when referencing the drill holes. You should be able to see the drill holes via the x-ray - traveling through the center of the pearl. This is what she means by have low-resolution. We are not seeing the center of the pearl, which is the only way to determine naturals by a picture.

You mention that you are certain the pearls have never been bleached. How can you be certain of this? Bleaching is done immediately after harvest, and is very difficult for someone not extremely versed to spot. This would be done long before the pearls were placed on a string...

 

[papatom]

oh

oh

well not knowing about bleaching....I don't know...but what I meant was that no one in MY family...grandpa or mom bleached them...of course I wouldn't know about before they were in our family.

also, i'm not one bit worried that they are not pearls...and i know that i don't just have a fancy clasp....but, not to be argumentative...
i can see that my poor job of presenting has set up the wrong atmosphere in this discussion....but I do appreciate your eye for detail and your frankness....
I had the pearls appraised with an appraiser at a jewelry store..."jared" about 5 years ago...I was going on memory for the 20 inches...I haven't measured them...but, I do remember clearly that they were measured as 10mm pearls at the time...I showed the entire strand in one picture so anyone would be able to count thepearls as a way of showing I wasn't making it up...I could measure the strand...that'd be easy.
I'll regroup and come back with accurate info and hopefully some better pictures....
I called the GIA in NY and they said it'd be about 175 to analyze the double strand....and I'll do that as soon as I have the money for that and the insured shipping....
someone on the periscope forum suggested I come to this forum for the exprt advise....I can see he was right....thanks

 

[Zeide Erskine]

Hi Papatom,

If you are that sure that you own the only double strand of perfectly spherical natural (not cultured) 10mm pearls in the world, you will do well to have them certified and appraised. If they are indeed as you say they are, i.e. perfectly natural, perfectly round, and perfectly flawless, your necklace is worth several million US dollars. However, no such strand has ever existed and the few that come close are all in royal collections or museums. Not to mention that although prices have gone up recently, they would have already cost over a million of US dollars in the 1920s when your grandfather bought them and that kind of thing tended to make big headlines back then. Ask Masie Plant's descendents.

Zeide

 

[jshepherd]

We definitely do not mean to be argumentative, simply very frank. I understand that it can be frustrating, and I did see the thread over at Pricescope - I am sorry that you did not really receive a decent answer. I would have posted a response, but Pricescope has a policy of not allowing pearl experts on their forum.

My suggestion:
If you are convinced that the pearls are indeed natural, send the to the lab! A jewelers appraisal is (I am sorry to say) basically worthless. Maybe one in a thousand jewelers would be able to tell whether or not your strand is natural.
If you get a good report from the GIA, I am sure we will all hear about it, whether you come back here or not. A strand like that would only be in a private collection or in a museum. It would be more than a one in a million find!

 

[jshepherd]

Hi Papatom,

If you are that sure that you own the only double strand of perfectly sperical natural (not cultured) 10mm pearl strand in the world, you will do well to have them certified and appraised. If they are indeed as you say they are, i.e. perfectly natural, perfectly round, and perfectly flawless, your necklace is worth several million US dollars. However, no such strand has ever existed and the few that come close are all in royal collections or museums. Not to mention that although prices have gone up recently, they would have already cost over a million of US dollars in the 1920s when your grandfather bought them and that kind of thing tended to make big headlines back then. Ask Masie Plant's descendents.

Zeide

I completely agree with that assessment. Even a single strand (let a lone a double) would be hard to accept. If it is a natural, not only will you be very rich when you sell, but you will also be very famous.

 

[papatom]

hello

hello

Zeide,
I fear you think i'm a fraud. I and anyone else can read the sarcasm in your post, since I did not say i owned any perfectly round or perfectly anything pearls. I simply responded to an immediate attack of my integrity to someone who is obviously very knowledgeable in their field but is
mistaken about my integrity.
I own what i own....my grandpa did not buy them in the 20s but got them in the 40s...the latter 40s at that i think. I respect your knowledge and
your opinion, but your judge of character could use some work.
I don't see any suggestions on how to improve my presentation and I guess that's due to you thinking ill of me...so be it. I will have the GIA do a report on these pearls and I will post that report, but it will take a little time for me to have the extra $$ to do so...I have some pictures that I took that won't post to a website but do email fine...I use PICASSA and looking at those photos, you can see flaws and drill holes etc....I'll email them to you or J shepherd if either of you would like to see the photos. again, I'm sorry for your sarcasm. I didn't see it in other posts I read.

 

[Zeide Erskine]

Hi Papatom,

I was not meaning to be sarcastic, I was just describing what your pictures showed. We also had somebody else on this forum describing a true treasure that, if the lore on them had been true, would have been an exquisite strand of naturals. However, they turned out to be cultured after all. I have met several professional jewelers in my life that thought cultured meant fake and bead nucleated pearls were natural.

Natural pearls are very rare and never fully round. Mother nature does not produce perfect spheres on planets. You still may have a very valuable necklace but chances are that these may be cultured if not faux. If they are indeed natural and of the quality shown, you can probably sell them to the Smithsonian and retire in luxury. If they turn out to be cultured, you have a fabulous heirloom or you can finance a nice vacation when you find a buyer. However, no matter what we can tell from your pictures and post on this forum will not make your necklace sell for a certain amount of money. Only the market can decide what the piece will ultimately go for.

Zeide

 

[Satine De La Courcel]

HI papatom,

To fill you in an a not so guearded secret on this list those who are professionals (the ones who really know their pearl stuff and this site has quite a few here) Jeremy and Zeide are two of the most upfromnt and honest. Sarcasm is part of the fun.... Its simole you ask they answer and honestly, albeit sometimes with sarcasm, and more direct than we are prepared to hear .... I hope you do not take it personally...


I was wondering if maybe there is a point of reference you could double check for the history or size or the shapes since 100% perfectly rounds are among some of teh most rare shapes found... Just suggestions... I am intriqued bu this necklace it looks very pretty in the pictures you did post. I am intereted in what additional information you may be able to find out about the necklace..

Please keep us posted....

Cheers

Ash

 

[jshepherd]

I am certainly not meaning to sound sarcastic. I am being 100% honest. If you do feel certain that the pearls are natural (and being as described, from the era described, they are either faux or natural) then send the to the GIA! I mean it! From your descriptions and pictures they do not seem to be naturals, but if they are, you will be rich and famous - period. If I had something in my possession that I thought could possibly be a nice strand of naturals, I would hitch-hike to the lab if I needed to.
If they are indeed naturals, they are the only of their kind in the world.

 

[papatom]

smiling

smiling

I am going to have to have them looked at by the GIA now...not that I want to be rich and famous...i mean who wouldn't want to be...but that certainly wouldn't be my motivation....it would be quite a surprise indeed to find that they are faux...since my grandpa, the diamond setter, lavished my grandma with platinum and diamonds in ways most would be envious for...most of it designed and made by him..I'm fortunate to have a few pieces that my wife enjoys. If these are cultured pearls, I will be personally surprised but not devestated at all...although my whole life I heard how they were natural pearls...the fact is, the piece is too large and heavy for my wife to enjoy so I'll find what their value is and thank my relatives for passing them on to me. wether a nice vacation, some debt reduction or a life of riley...i'll be grateful to have had them.
I will come back and post the findings for more than one reason....honesty...and information as well as the completion to a spirited discussion. I'll read further on the posts as I really am amazed at the knowledge shared on this forum...it's breath taking to see the display shared.
thanks, i appreciate you all.

 

[pattye]

Hello Papatom-
I am in the process of having my south sea pearls(3 strands) and kasumi strand (not yet a necklace)all purchased on ebay appraised by a pearl expert, Sharon Wakefield, GG and many other credentials with NW Gemological Laboratory in Boise. I sent my pearls registered and insured, and was quoted a price for the appraisal under $100 per strand--which I felt very reasonable. The pearls were sent back right away, and I will be receiving the paperwork shortly, and I will report on them here. I didn't feel comfortable with anyone here in Portland, although Sharon would have referred me to someone who was a pearl specialist if she had known any in the area. She might be able to refer you someone who can look at the pearls with you and explain what's what. We are all truly interested, if you want more info such as phone or email for Sharon I will gladly email you. We love pictures of gorgeous amazing pearls and our own beaders creations. However nobody is going to schmooze you when you ask for their honest opinion.
Pattye Saab

 

[papatom]

okeedokie

okeedokie

thanks paty...i don't really want smoozing... but i would like the contact information for your pearl expert...I'd like that.
I don't know what the forum rules are for posting email addresses....i did check that i'd receive email from members though when I signed up so yes, email me please.

 

[Zeide Erskine]

Hi Papatom,

If you can zoom in on them so we can see some close-ups of about 5 pearls at a time on a white background, we resident opiners and prognosticators may be able to come up with some better guesses. Although they will still be guesses, at least they will be educated guesses. Black is a great background color for selling pearls. For grading or identifying pearls, though, it is the worst color. A neutral non-reflective pure white cotton pillow case is probably the best. And try to showcase some flaws.

Zeide

 

[papatom]

i'm on it

i'm on it

OK, THANKS
silly me i thought they'd show up better on black...i'll go photo them again

 

[papatom]

frustrated

frustrated

I can't get my camera to focus up close....I can take pictures and enlarge them on the computer to show strong detail...but i have to be back a little to take them or its fuzzy....and then enlarge them...I'd be happy to email them so you can enlarge them.