double strand 10mm natural pearls...

[papatom]

thanks Zeide...
I'll get them certified so I know what i have...
in the picture of the clasp, you'll notice the cut of the diamonds are all the old style ...I think called jewelers cut....
not something you found in the 70s....plus...
I'm 55 years young...I remember seeing these as a young boy so I know they didn't come from the 70s...my grandma died in 1969 and she wore them for a long time prior to her death....
looks llike I have to scrape up some money for certifying

 

[Zeide Erskine]

Hi Papatom,

The dark ring looks more like accumulated dirt than conchiolin. If you are going to have them appraised, don't clean them. The appraiser will do it for you. And even though I tentatively favor the idea that they may be cultured akoyas, the fact of the apparently thin nacre as visible around the drill holes, their strong and very uniform orient, and the absence of typical pearl flaws still makes Mallorca beads a just as strong contender. That would indicate that maybe somebody in the family needed money more than pearls sometime in the necklace's history.

Zeide

 

[Zeide Erskine]

Hi Papa Tom,

If you saw the necklace exactly as it is right now as a child, the pearls are definitely a high grade faux. Japanese farms did not have the technology before WWII to make such large implants, so that any 9mm or larger pearl had very thick nacre because its size was due to longer culturing time. The largest beads used until about 1955 were 8mm. Of course it could also be that these pearls have been replaced some time down the line.

Zeide

 

[papatom]

I hope you are wrong Zeide...it would mean that either my mom or my grandpa was a fraud and that's something i wouldn't like to face...
the way my mom worshiped my grandpa...and his handywork...I would guess my mom didn't do anything to the pearls...and that would leave my grandpa...my favorite relative growing up....
at the same time....
it's hard to think that I would have something so amazingly valuable...
it just doesn't seem like something that would happen to me....

also...
what is conchiolin ?

 

[Zeide Erskine]

Hi Papa Tom,

Conchiolin is the binder protein that keeps pearls together. Also, please keep in mind that your grandfather was a diamond setter. He probably knew all about diamonds but not necessarily all about pearls. I once met a lady who bought a double strand of 10mm alleged cultured pearls just like yours in New York City in 1948. They were faux. I did not have the heart to tell her and she did not want to sell them to me, but fake they were.

Zeide

 

[papatom]

yup..he was an excellent diamond setter...you should see his work.

it's completely possible that someone "took" him with some fake pearls...and he put a platinum and diamond clasp on it....

I guess the GIA will be the bearer of news...good or bad.

 

[Taylor]

Hi PapaTom,
I also have some naturals I want to send to the GIA. You should know that they will only accept items sent via a retail jeweler and my jeweler quoted me a price of 300USD to get a definitive certification that they are natural - ie x-rays of the quality described above. That's why I love the guys on this forum ... they are willing to at least give you some honest idea if you might have something worth spending that kind of money on.
I certainly agree that most jewelers won't be able to help you and even the GIA certified appraiser who looked at mine and said for insurance purposes that they were real naturals ( and charged 75USD) was basically basing his opinion on the clasp.
I've not tried some of the other experts, but I do trust the members here. Also I've tried and tried to photograph mine and even though I'm getting better, I still can't capture the true color.
Good luck.

 

[papatom]

hi taylor

hi taylor

Thanks for the info Taylor.....I'm not sure if it's completely accurate although I don't doubt you were told that.
I called the GIA in NYC and talked with their "pearl expert lab division" cuz i can't remember the real exact name...I got thenumber off their website.
The lady quoted me a price of 175.00 to analyse my double strand of pearls and said that I could fed X or UPS or what ever to them and I'd need to provide shipping back to me and all necessary insurance during shipping. She did not mention at all that they only accept shipments from a jeweler....so you might want to check that info out yourself. Take a look at their website and there is an area that is the lab...i think that's where i went in...I'll go check agian and if it's different i'll let you know...but i did a google search on GIA and went to their website.
good luck with your piece...and the pictures...talk about frustrating....eeek...pictures.

 

[Taylor]

Help experts: What is pearl identification????

Help experts: What is pearl identification????

Hi PapaTom,
I did go to their website and looked under Services under For Professional Jewelers where their Fee schedule is. Although there is a fee of about 100USD for pearl identification (what is that?), the fee for use of x-ray is around 200USD. Maybe someone here can tell us which is which and what we really need. Any help????
Also if I can send them myself, I'd much rather do that.
Since I don't want to sell my pearls, I'm mainly interested in getting a 100% sure certification before the insurance come due again. I'd hate to think I'm paying 250 a year to insure something worth 50USD.
Also does anyone know if the NY office does pearls? I think my jeweler told me only CA did?????
Thanks

 

[Zeide Erskine]

Hi Taylor,

I know the New York office also does pearl identification. With naturals, you will definitely need the x-ray service. You may also have to plan in a second opinion since sometimes the first examination may not be conclusive or you can get a misidentification because the appraiser does not deal enough with natural pearls. Forum member Preswine has had some experience with the New York GIA lab when he had his natural pearl certified. Maybe he can chime in here.

Zeide

 

[papatom]

taylor,
you may want to call like I did.
I didn't go to the professional jewelers area...I think i went to the laborotory (sp?) but I was looking for a phone number. I called and with one transfer found my self talking to a person who asked what I wanted...asked me the lenght of the strand...I estimated each at about 20 inches and she told me to certify them...it would be $175.
one hundred for the first strand and 75 for the second...
and she said I could send them in myself.
and I just got off the phone with a lady from Boise, ID that was referred to me by a member on this board and she said I could send my pearls myself. She personally knows the people in the lab that do the testing in NYC and said they are the best.
so....you may want to call first..
by the way...the IDaho lady also said that for insurance purposes....U.S. certified mail is the best shipping method since fedx doesn't insure and the UPS has a lower limit..? ( i can't remember what the problem with UPS was actually) but the USPS will insure on up there but only accept liability for u p to $25k...per jewelry piece.
good luck....

 

[papatom]

there is nothing like experience...Zeide, I hadn't read your post when i posted....
so even with GIA ....it may be unconclusive? and need a second opinion?
sheesh...

 

[jshepherd]

Didn't Preswine receive a report of cultured from the EGL and a second opinion of natural from the GIA? The pearl was a natural black from J. Norris, so I am certain it was indeed natural.

 

[Zeide Erskine]

Hi Jeremy,

Something like that or maybe the other way around. Preswine may recount the process best himself. I had an experience like that, too, once. You always want to know who is doing the actual examination and how much experience the appraiser really has with natural pearls.

Zeide

 

[ladykemma]

Hi Papatom,

The dark ring looks more like accumulated dirt than conchiolin. If you are going to have them appraised, don't clean them. The appraiser will do it for you. And even though I tentatively favor the idea that they may be cultured akoyas, the fact of the apparently thin nacre as visible around the drill holes, their strong and very uniform orient, and the absence of typical pearl flaws still makes Mallorca beads a just as strong contender. That would indicate that maybe somebody in the family needed money more than pearls sometime in the necklace's history.

Zeide

or maybe they got switched? they look like cultured akoyas to me, i saw orient in the supercloseup, mallorca comes to mind too.

 

[pearl guide]

If it were conchiolin the surface of the pearls would not still appear so...perfect. The dark layer appears to be extremely close to the outer edge of the "nacre". Akoyas with skin that thin would not have lasted this long retaining that level of beauty. If it were a new strand, I would say it could likely be Akoya from the pictures. But from the 40's or 50's, that size, with thin skin...just not possible.

 

[Zeide Erskine]

Hi Ladykemma,

I have never heard of any substantiated incident of pearl switching. However, I have seen a double strand just like these bought in New York at the same time and they clearly were Mallorcas. Anyhow, there is a reason why there are no 10mm akoyas around from the 1940s. The reason being that there were hardly any to begin with and the few that did exist are worn out by now.

Zeide

 

[jerin]

Naturals or Akoyas?

Naturals or Akoyas?

Papatom,

it is sad to say so, but could someone in Your family have switched these pearls? They really look too perfect to be naturals. Their roundness alone makes me think of Akoyas and as Zeide and other members told You, the price would have been enormous even that long ago. Probably Your grandfather was cheated, unfortunately. Still it should be something of a consolation to You that Your grandmother loved and cherished them.

 

[Caitlin]

Hi Papatom

My stepfather?s family were all diamond cutters. But they had no better access to pearls (or pearl knowledge) than anyone else in the business. Even in the 40?s, natural pearls were already quite rare and far more expensive than the average diamond cutter family could ever afford.

Even the best jewelers get pearls all wrong. There are so many posts on this forum before you came here that attest to that!

This has nothing to do with integrity. It has to do with the fact diamond families do not know pearls any better than most jewelers do and can be fooled and easily misrepresented to about pearls unlike almost any other gem. What they do know is a diamond and platinum clasp and that most people will read the clasp as meaning the pearls are of great importance. That was a symbol of the esteem in which your ancestor held his wife, not a measure of his integrity.

I have more than one friend who has sent me pearls to look at, swearing they were ?real? pearls belonging to grandma ----and they were faux- albeit the luster on one of them is absolutely outstanding! It is plastic and doesn?t weigh right in my hand before I even look close. I?ll see if I can find the picture I took- it is up on the forum somewhere already.

Did you try the tooth test? If those are natural, they will feel like extra, extra, fine gritty to the edge of your front tooth. If they are plastic, they will feel like a nail polish coating. If they are Mallorcas (the top quality faux pearls ever made and very expensive in their own right) they may pass the weight test and the tooth test, but I would eliminate that test before I spend a grand amount at a lab.

 

[knotty panda]

SO WHAT HAPPENED!!!!! This is like TOTALLY the best reality show EVER!