Are These Cultured Pearls ? White 18k & Platinum Clasp

[jools]

Interesting Caitlin, and yes, of course the pearls will stand by themselves no matter what type of clasp they have.

I was responding to the 'pearl-geek' comment earlier. Although I cant really see how upgrading the clasp would alter the appearance of the pearls - the fanciest of clasps on low grade pearls would not make them magically into something they were not to start with.

And there are other aspects to be taking into account which cannot be faked or upgraded, like wear and tear or obvious age.

What an interesting subject.


Jools

Kind regards


Jools

 

[Caitlin]

Sorry if I sounded "teachy"! I do like to take moments like this thread to explain more to others who follow. This is a very educational thread for someone who comes along later.

Many of us never leave a necklace as is, but take it apart and redesign it or change the clasp. We have a whole forum called the Lowly Beaders Club for those who chronically tinker with their pearls and upgrade clasps, etc. This Forum unleashes creativity in the most surprising places! We have had many people learn to knot from the directions and videos available here.

I am left handed and do not do a single thing as Wendy does in knotting, I use 2 threads and pull them apart. I don't need a pin, but her method is an ancient one and her video is clear. A couple of months ago, I spent a morning looking at how to knot videos and I thought Wendy's was the best of the 20 or so I watched.

I knot almost identically to Hisano, who I hope will put out a knotting video for PP. Sarah of Kojima uses homemade needles out of electrical wire! They are very thin and can be changed midway through knotting a strand. That alone means I will never spend another penny on a closed eye needle. Sarah takes a couple of other shortcuts too- I find something to learn from each person, but so far the sources I know through the Pearl Guide seem to be the best knotting videos!

There is a book for those who like books, "Pearl and Bead Knotting with Henrietta" Henrietta Virchik. It is thin, cheap and has about every known method of knotting. some old stuff like making a needle with Gum Arabic. Today, it would be a super glue........

 

[pearlescence]

Caitlin
My daughter is left handed. clearly I will have to teach her to knot them make a video for southpaws!

 

[Caitlin]

Unless she wants to learn a doubled thread, no pin, do it in her lap, method from me!

 

[GemGeek]

Lots of brides upgrade their wedding rings on a regular basis. The first time I heard that, I was shocked.

 

[jools]

How interesting Caitlin, and no need for apologies. I'm on a very steep learning curve here. And how interesting to learn that there are many ways to knot pearls. But I am typically 'kak-handed' and would not dare to attempt taking them apart never mind rethreading.

GemGeek I too am shocked that brides upgrade their wedding rings. The sentimental emotions connected to the original ring seem to mean little then, if I am reading this right.

But as to taking apart pearls on a regular basis and changing clasps, I just dont get that at all.

I guess it may be because when judging what is genuinely 'vintage costume jewellery' which is most times made from crystal (aka composition) and base metal, it is very often the findings, (the metal parts) along with the type of thread, the threading technique as well as the method which helps us to date a particular piece.

So with pearls, that kind of trying to get the rough age would be near on impossible (unless you have owned it or know its complete provenance).

Pearls really are in a separate class of their own, that is for sure.

Kind regards to all

Jools

 

[Caitlin]

I understand what you are saying about vintage costume jewelry and that could also be true of, say, a Pearl Paradise necklace in a box with a certificate. But still, Pearl Paradise would happily upgrade the clasp at a later time. Keep that paperwork, too, and you are all set. Or if at some future date, all paperwork is lost, the necklace still stands as its own reference. It has certain quality pearls. It has a certain value added clasp- or not.

My reference point, maybe because of my age ,still includes natural pearls. Although some pearls were set in stone, most were on strands, with clasps. Clasps break. They go out of fashion. A family had a stash of pearls and might combine or redistribute them as desired. A long strand can be restrung for three grandaughters, say, though the grandmother wore all three together. The grand mother in turn, might have had three necklaces combined to the three strander after acquiring them singly. So natural pearls worn as strands were subject to recombination as natural pearls were scarce. Even for those who could afford them, there never were enough pearls without recombining. There are of course, some pieces like the freshwater pearl necklace Mary Queen of Scots gave to the Duke of Nor-something. The duke's family has kept it unchanged for 400 years. But many other pearls now residing in strands being worn all over the world, are that old and have been reused time and again- as long as a family could keep themselves in pearls!

 

[KarinK]

I am thinking it also has to do with the fact that the silk wears out. Unlike many metal settings there is no choice but to restring pearls.

- Karin

 

[Caitlin]

Or linen. Or any other thread used. Each restringing is also a chance to redistribute pearls. Or incorporate new ones. Even the original Baroda strand only lasted a generation in its 7 strand form. When the family decided to sell some pearls, they cherry picked the 7 strand for a two strander that ended in the hands of Wallace Simpson, which has been resold since. It probably will retain its present form-since it is so famous, but then, who know what needs the next generation will bring to their pearls, or where in the world they may have to sell them to as happened with the Baroda pearls which were many generations old when they were combined into the 7 strander.

 

[jools]

Hello All - Yes, that makes perfect sense. On the Wallace Simpson sale - as you may know, Madonna brought most of her stuff. I wonder if she got that two strand pearl necklace as well.

I finally got round to taking some more pictures today of the pearl necklace I am hoping is a uniform strand of Akoya pearls from the 1930's. It is very overcast here today (so what's new here in the UK) and I took 10 pics. This one is the most accurate for colour etc. I have not altered the colour or lightness or contrast - dont know how to do that anyhow, but I would be worried it may distort the actual piece.

Here it is :

 

[jools]

Also - during researching I am fascinated to learn of 'natural pearls' and it is my understanding that these are pearls which are simply discovered within the shell, grown naturally and without any encouragement from us. I remember when I lived in the Persian Gulf 20 years ago there were natural pearls produced in Bahrain and Dubai.

But I have a question on that - are natural pearls always of an irregular shape? Are they ever completely round? I seem to think not and that is why when (for example) the strands you mention Caitlin were broken up, they 'cherry picked' the most uniform round beads for the new two strand necklace.

And I have to do a bit more digging on which type of mollusc produces natural pearls and where they are located. What a fascinating but complex subject but what a lot to absorb.

Kind regards


Jools

 

[pattye]

Jools,

A beautiful strand, and very well matched. I know little about vintage pearls, but they are always a delight to see! Hopefully you will be able to find out more about the clasp markings. You are correct about natural pearls being shapes other than round.

 

[waimeamomi]

They're really quite nice. I'd say they have been reknotted at some point looking at the thread. It's really, really hard to say about age other than knowing that they are at least from the 60's. I have a vingtage akoya strand of graduated akoyas, I'll post a pic. They are lovely no matter what, and I think you must keep them after all the work you've put into them. I'm thinking you're probably pretty attached by now.

 

[jools]

Hi Pattye

Thank you for your comment - yes, they are well matched in colour which I had not noticed before. Or perhaps it is the luster or the orient ? I have to say I am really confused about what colour they are (they look plain cream), the orient and the luster.

I've read tons of stuff about it but cant seem to get it. I'm hoping someone who knows will look at this picture and let me know their opinion. Could it be called 'cream pearl with pink luster (or should that be orient?). Aaaaarrgghhhhh. And yes, quite right. I need to dig deeper into the clasp markings. I've been snowed under preparing more ebay listings so haven't done anything further on that, but I do intend to.

And since natural pearls are not uniformly round then it is clear that my strand of pearls is not natural - would that be an accurate assumption plse ? Certainly appreciate any comments.

Bye for now


Jools

 

[Caitlin]

Yes. Natural pearls are rarely round in actuality though some may be round to the eye, most natural pearls are off round to baroque. No way are those natural pearls in that strand. I don't see how they can be anything but akoya or faux. there is no other choice, so akoya it is.

Bahrain in the 80's? How cool. My grandparents lived there from the 30's through the 50's. My grandfather really got into natural pearls and even sponsored a boat and crew, from which he acquired quite a stash of pearls. So I grew up in the natural pearl tradition, though I didn't keep as many as I should have. I wrote about it back in 2004!!! It's here some where.

 

[jools]

Hi Caitlin - How wonderful to have a stash of Bahraini pearls! You lucky girl. I knew nothing about them back then and am kicking myself now. No wonder you have such an interest in pearls with your grandpa's history in that area and all.

I was based in Bahrain but travelled just about everywhere being part of Gulf Air which was (then) a pretigious gulf sponsored airline. Its the poor relation now of airlines like Emirates which have totally eclipsed it. But it was good as it gave me a wide perspective on the world.

I am quite sure now that the strand pictured are not faux, goodness knows I have plenty of those around here. Found two other strands which I am not sure about though, both beautifully made with no clues around the tiny bead holes. One has an elaborate silver and blue/clear stone clasp which definitely places it firmly in the Art Deco 1930's era.

I've been following some sellers on ebay who listed their items as 'Cultured' pearls. One gave several images and on one of the images you could see that the coating on the bead has flaked off. Yet still it sold for about $100 !!! I'm guessing that seller will get a return pretty fast.....

There are such a huge selection of them and some just look like the simple 1950's three strand ordinary coated beads, yet are still advertised as being 'cultured' pearls.

Am I missing something? If a glass bead has a 'nacre' coating, put on the outside by a manufacturer to immitate a pearl, no matter how many coats of this covering, it still is surely a 'faux' or simulated pearl, isn't it ?

But then I suppose the cultured pearls which have a glass bead put inside the shell (I think Majorica?) also have a build up of calcium or whatever the creature excreets in layers on the outside of the central glass bead. But are they classed as faux or simulated too ?

I have thoroughly confused myself on pearls I think - I certainly had no idea it was such a complicated subject.

Off to rest the brain for awhile.

Kind regards


Jools

 

[waimeamomi]

lol - I started with a simple question, and here I am over a thousand posts later, with not only a deep interest and respect, but buying and selling on a regular (at least before I moved) basis. If the pearl actually grew in a mollusk with absolutely no human intervention, it is a natural pearl. If it grew inside the mollusk with human "encouragement" it's a cultured pearl. Crummy pearls exist in nature and in the cultured world, but in the cultured world some dealers stretch the boundaries of intervention and that's what you often encounter on ebay etc. If you want an idea about vintage prices, you might look through the Ruby Lane web site for ideas.

 

[pearlescence]

I'll say what I always say. faux = FAKE. fake fake fake. faux just makes it sound not so fake. it is a con word

 

[Caitlin]

Your pearls seem to be excellent cultured akoya pearls. My only caveat is that I can't see a blemish anywhere, which makes them high quality- or faux.
Glass has not been used in pearl culturing since Linnaeus trie d it. Maybe Seville-Kent tried it briefly. But if it is glass, it is coated with fake nacre composed by the human hand- as in Majorca pearls, which look nothing like real pearls- whatever the manufacturers think or say. Fake pearls are almost always coated with a pearlescent plastic-like nail polish.

I do not think your pearls are faux or fake. they seem to be cultured akoya, right down to the pink tint, which is ubiquitous in the industry, and is so universal. it is not even disclosed as a treatment, which it is. Most cultured akoyas are subject to various bleaching and tightening treatments. The untreated akoyas you can occasionally get through Jeremy are beautiful for their natural iridescence, esp in the slightly baroque spots.

Yeah. LOL! The pretentiousness of "faux" always gets Wendy sounding like a ruffled hen! She is correct, of course, but when you can substitute French for plain English in trying to sell fake pearls, it just sounds so much better.......No good salesmen would ever want to use "Fake" when they could say, "Faux". Sheesh, its beginning to sound like a George Carlin routine. "Fake" is all hard and real. "Faux" is all soft and furry. It just sounds better than fake, which is just plain too Anglo-Saxon for the francophile lilt given to all things fancy and wannabee.

 

[Caitlin]

OK
Let's rule out fake: You did do a tooth test? I didn't reread to see. What I see is really perfect pearls, no divots. No wrinkles. Are all pearls equally unmarked? If any have flaws or irregularities, please post a photo. While it is possible to have flawless pearls- I have a Tahitian from Jeremy that is flawless, it makes the necklace worth far more. What I see is flawless. The other reason for a flawless appearance is that it is manufactured. It is very high quality- whether cultured or manufactured.

How does it feel to the tooth? Smooth or gritty?