Are These Cultured Pearls ? White 18k & Platinum Clasp

[pearlescence]

Rather than photos I think you need to have at that marking with a strong magnifying glass of some sort to work out what is going on. I am wondering if it is a genuine hallmark at all......
Do the pearls pass a tooth test (rub pearls gently on teeth, if feel gritty probably genuine, if smooth probably fake)

 

[Bodecia]

Hello Jools,

In your last lot of photos, the last of those, which is at the top, there appears to be what might be an indication of glass pearls, maybe. Do check two pearls in, two up and have a good look at it near the drill hole. High content gold does not tarnish. Only very low carat told might get a little tarnish so plating in platinum doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I have seen Platinum plating over copper though which shocked the pants off of me.

If the clasp is original and if it is genuine 750 18kt Gold then I would think the pearls would be good cultured pearls. If you can, as Wendy said, make out the mark it would certainly help. But do the gritty or smooth test too. Also important.

The pearls look good but just maybe too good. If imitation pearls they are worth what the clasp is. If good cultured at least $500 on eBay but then you may have to wait and before Xmas that is hard although customers are buying for Christmas. Also prices vary a lot on eBay. BIN prices are a good indicator but not always. That is a confusing thing to say but really it is the truth. Don't bother looking at prices unless the photos are top notch. You can't tell anything from photos in bad light and a mile away or photos that have been touched up to hide faults.

If you are near Wendy's go in and get her help. If not maybe go to a jewellers and buy some pearl cleaner which will not hurt them. Actually I don't think that a very soft toothbrush will hurt them as long as covered in the pearl solution and gently wiped with the brush. At least it will get around the drill holes too. But this is just my opinion. I have tested this treatment and find it works fine.

But if these are genuine cultured pearls do have them re-threaded. They will need it even if not worn for years and years. That is years and years for the silk to start rotting.

Please do add photos and information and keep us informed. We all love to get out teeth (pun not intended) into something like this.


Dawn - Bodecia
http://stores.ebay.com/Dawns-Designer-Collections
Natural pearl collector and all round pearl lover

 

[jools]

Hi Dawn - Thanks for the interesting reply.

Since reading it I have gone over every bead and every bead hole and they all look the same. All very tiny hole and no sign of flaking or outer coating of 'nacre'. I am sure they are not glass beads, lord knows I have dozens of those type of necklaces here, so know what to look out for. Maybe when I said tarnish it was not the right word. I didn't mean tarnish as is silver going black, but as in gold which does go a dull gold. Hope that makes sense! Again, several references to this on high end strands of pearls on the net.

The tongue is marked both sides - one side I have shown - the other which again has the 750 mark, but also with the 900 mark, which is for platinum. I found several other vintage necklaces which have clasps like this, ie 18k white gold with platinum over, and they all seem to date to the 1920's.

I've even typed into Google images "vintage barrel clasp" and sat for hours looking at all kinds of clasps to see if that would nail it down time wise. But nothing that even comes close to this.

I'm pretty sure this came from my aunt who lived in Santa Monica who travelled extensively when her agent husband died. Her stuff is almost all (very) high-end and as she knew I too collected (costume) jewellery, I was lucky enough to inherit her collection.

Yes, the tooth test was the first thing after seeing from the bead holes that they were not coated on the outside. Very gritty - like nails on a chalkboard, eewwwwwww.

I have found one strand on ebay which look similar in colour, although they are hugely graduated in size. I will check the item number and post here.

I have to admit - I got the (old and soft) toothbrush out before seeing the notes here not to do it. I used baby shampoo and kind of massaged the beads before gently rubbing each one. I dried them agterwards on a very low heat with a hair drier. My son walked past while I was doing this and clearly thought mum had lost it totally....

So the beads you see have been washed and dried. To my (untrained) eye they have a pinkish colour. Whereas before I cleaned them they looked just cream and nothing else. I am on a very steep learning curve here but have to say it is fascinating.

My late husband was in aviation so I have been hauling all this vintage jewellery around with me for years. Now I am back in the UK I have found the time to start going through some of it but still have boxes which have not been opened yet. I do remember about ten years ago looking at some and being amazed there was a whole carrier bag full of pearl necklaces. I'm sure most were the fifties fakes but I have not found that bag yet.

I've had this strand (and all the others) since the mid 1960's and have never purchased pearls or even been given pearls. I did not particularly like them till now - and had no clue how interesting they could be. I do remember my gran telling me that pearls stood for tears, so to keep away from them. Quite where that comes from I dont know!

If it does not rain here tomorrow I will do another batch of images in natural daylight on a white background. I wish I could see the other marks I have tried with a high powered jewellers loupe x 30 but find I can see much more when a close up image is cropped and enlarged on the computer. No chance of seeing it with my eyes as they are now.

Now I will go off and see if I can find the ebay pearls which look a bit like mine. Thanks so much Dawn for your input, it is fascinating stuff !!

Kind regards


Jools

 

[jools]

PS The most amazing thing to me is that after I washed them it was only then that I noticed that they do graduate in size - but everso gradually. Even now I can barely spot the larger bead, but it is certainly a tiny bit larger at 8mms than the ones near the clasp.

 

[jools]

PPS This is the item number on ebay.co.uk which remind me of my strand. 310294298265 I'd be really interested on peoples opinions. Bye for now

 

[Bodecia]

Hi Jools,

Well this is a bit of a giggle. You have searched eBay and come up with my favourite and most expensive single strand Akoya Pearl necklace.

I feel I would be totally prejudiced here to really give you a good opinion.

It is strange but as soon as I saw you have found a graduated necklace I just thought this one, mine in other words. When I saw it was from the UK site I thought oh good not mine but I do make sure my best go on the UK site too so there we are.

Does show what a small world the pearl lovers world is.


Dawn - Bodecia
http://stores.ebay.com/Dawns-Designer-Collections
Natural pearl collector and all round pearl lover

 

[GemGeek]

Thanks for posting the closeups! Whatever it is, it is lovely. Looks like a great akoya strand, but it's very hard to be certain from a photo.

 

[pearlescence]

It is telling that the clasp slider is marked on both sides. That makes me suspect that it isn't a hallmark, but a pretend cobbled up mark. You really do need to sit down with a guide to hallmarks and a strong magnifier and work out the marks

 

[jools]

What great information and how funny that I found your necklace Dawn - mine is nowhere near as glowing as yours, but they sure do look similar. What a hoot! Wendy, I've been researching the marks for weeks and found the informatiion from various forums with precious metals experts. They are a bright bunch, one even identified a Soviet hallmark and was even able to tell me which city it was assayed it!

But I will dig out a book I have on gold hallmarks and do my best to ID the extra marks. I know the marks are not English, and probably not European, and most likely Far Eastern. Couple that with the wannabee Mikimoto's and it seems to fit.

I may give it a rest for a few days and then start again with researching the marks. I have found several marks where the tongue is marked both sides - spent hours and hours trawling google images from various strings like 'marks on tongue barrel clasp'.

Thanks for the advice and I'll let you know what else I find. I would have thought the maker - the elusive MH which is very clear on the marks - would throw up something on Google. But not so far.

And good luck to Dawn with that fantabulous strand on ebay.

Kind regards



Jools

 

[pearlescence]

Hi
That is not a Mikimoto clasp

 

[jools]

Hi Wendy - No, I did not think it was a Mikimoto clasp, sorry crossed wired somewhere I think !

I'm trying to track down the maker whose initials are just clear on the mark - the letters MH being the first mark.

Wondering if this site has a list of akoya Mikimoto similar manufacturers out of Japan. I did read somewhere that there were many who copied his technique and seems to me that a list of these competitors would be really useful to have.

Maybe the members here could put one together ? Just an idea

Kind regards



Jools

 

[Caitlin]

That is a great idea, but we haven't even begun such a thing...... If you figure out what the MH is, then we will have a start. I wouldn't know how to begin, but there must have been a finite number of pearl sellers in the late 40's 50's when all the servicemen brought home akoya necklaces!. It does sound possible......

 

[jools]

Hi Caitlin

I'm still trying to discover who MH is. And I have been researching pearls further. Still researching pearls and thought I would share some new (to me anyhow) information. You all will probably know that there is a pearl vocabulary length specific to pearl necklaces. It seems mine at 22" would be classed as a "matinee length" which apparently includes those from 20" - 24".

Interestingly, it seems that necklaces can be classified as 'uniform' or 'graduated' which came as rather a surprise. It seems that even though mine is very slightly graduated from 7.5mms to 8mms this actually still counts as a 'uniform' necklace if they are akoya pearls - and from what I read a uniform strand is considered more valuable than a graduated strand.

Fascinating too to read about momme weight, although I don’t really get that at all. But it does seem that it is possible to tell if a necklace is properly proportioned if one knows the momme weight. If anyone knows how to assess this, I'd be grateful for some tips !

Kind regards


Jools

 

[Caitlin]

Jeremy just mentioned momme weight in another post just a few day ago. It appears that the 3.5-7.5 (I think) strands, which were ubiquituous, had about the same momme weight as each other and were even referred to (x)momme necklaces (x referring to the actual weight, which I forget)

The necklace lengths do have different names and a matinee length is MORE pearls, therefore worth more. A definite upgrade from the usual 16-18". And the uniform pearls! that is an above average necklace!

I first remember the uniform necklaces in the late 1950's, though they may have been around earlier. And it was famous people I saw them on. It wasn't until the 60's I started seeing them on people I knew. (My mo-in-law had one, though I did not know her back then, I have that strand, now- or rather my youngest does)

 

[GemGeek]

Often, when pearls are restrung, the jeweler suggests upgrading the clasp. Who wouldn't want to "trade up"?

 

[Bacca]

Interestingly, it seems that necklaces can be classified as 'uniform' or 'graduated' which came as rather a surprise. It seems that even though mine is very slightly graduated from 7.5mms to 8mms this actually still counts as a 'uniform' necklace if they are akoya pearls - and from what I read a uniform strand is considered more valuable than a graduated strand.

Exactly. That's why the size of pearls in an akoya necklace will often be described as, say, 7.5-8.0 mm. Graduated necklaces cover a greater range of sizes, for instance, the 3.5-7.5 that Caitlin mentioned. With graduated necklaces you can definitely see the progression. You have uniform pearls of a nice size and length.

It's great that you're researching the maker and I hope you find more information. Do it to satisfy your own curiosity, though, as it probably won't affect the value of the piece that much. People will pay a premium for certain brands, like Mikimoto or Ming, but rarely for others.

Momme weight is also something you would study for your own information. I don't believe I've ever seen or heard it discussed as part of a transaction or used as a selling point. Can you pretty much tell if the piece is properly proportioned by looking at it?

I hope I'm not raining on anyone's parade, but I don't see this necklace going for a huge amount of money on eBay, unless you can really talk up the clasp. Recently a lot of what looked like decent quality items went for $110.20. Contrast that to the selling price of this necklace with a teeny, tiny diamond in the clasp. People want pearls, but they're willing to pay more for the ones with a special or unusual clasp. The best way to get an idea of selling prices on eBay is to look at closed auctions. Check current listings to get an idea of the competition. There are more than a few vintage akoya necklaces listed. Look in the "Fine" and "Fashion" categories, narrow your search to "pre-owned," and sort by price.

Your necklace is lovely. No matter what you find out about it or decide to do with it, I hope it ends up worn and loved.

 

[jools]

How interesting Caitlin - and what a lucky 'youngest' you have! Certianly a treasure and a keeper. I cant believe I didn't notice it was gradually graduated when I first unpacked it. It's howling wind and rain here so I'll have to delay taking more pictures.

It would be great if it did turn out to be a super-duper good pearl necklace. And even though we could use the $$ I think I have become enchanted by it. The more I find out the more I like it.

I sent an email to the Japanese Pearl Producers Association (or somesuch name) asking if they had a list of pearl producers during the early years. Not sure whether I will even get a reply, but hope so. Their website is all in English as well as Japanese, so fingers crossed !

I will post when and if they reply.

I'm surprised that jewellers suggest an upgrade when pearls are re-strung, that sounds plain crooked to me. But good business for them! But at the end of the day, the pearls themselves 'speak' simply by looking the way they do.

I am wearing the strand now, but can anyone tell me, is there any way to shine the pearls, to make their orient (if that is the right word) come out ? They have a pinkish tinge against a white background but nowhere near as strong as those for sale by Dawn on ebay UK. Hers simply glow !!

Thanks for all the input, I think I am hooked on pearls and learning more now.

Kind regards


Jools

 

[pearlescence]

Sometimes I will suggest a new clasp if the spring element looks a bit worn - most irritating if the clasp fails just after re-stringing. And often the clasp in situ will be small and fiddly and a customer asks if they would like a larger and more easily fastened one.
Would that a quick wipe over with a magic chemical treatment could improve luster! how happy we would all be! If you are content that they are clean then that is as lustrous as they will be

 

[jools]

Hi Wendy - Ah well that is different. If a change of clasp is a functional issue then yes, but upgrading the clasp to make the pearls look better than they really are? That has to be a bit off. I wasn't suggesting you would do anything like that, just responding to someone else's post.

Shows how much I know to think that a magic wipe would make them more lusterous ! So luster is a fixed and immutable quality, I did not get that. I would love to see a picture of a pearl under a microscope - I'll go check on Google images I think.

I'm also going to look at your threading video again - you completely lost me with the first four and the last four, not that I would think of trying something so fiddly. You must have fantastic eyesight. And that little curl of wire looks microscopic - yikes, that's not for me.

I think they are very clean now after my soft old toothbrushing and baby shampoo. I had another good look at them and the wire thingy does look worn.

Thanks for all your advice.

Kind regards



Jools

 

[Caitlin]

Yikes! Please do not worry about upgrading clasps as being "off"! Pearls have traditionally been restrung over and over in different combinations and with different clasps. There is nothing the slightest bit off about that. It is simply a matter of choice. We used to have a poster that called it "mable-swining" when any pearl was dressed in diamonds.

Pearls don't need diamonds, but they are a value added item or upgrade, whatever you want to call it. There is nothing sinister in adding diamonds to an AA akoya or changing the clasp every year. Or using a diamond clasp on a freshwater pearl necklace. It is what it is and there are no rules. If mableswining a pearl seems unethical, don't worry about it:The pearls are one thing and judged as pearls. the clasps are another and judged as clasps. Either can be interchanged in any way that is desired by the current owner or the generation that inherits.

The rule would be: A clasp does not have to match the value of the pearls. Each is valued separately.