What do you think about these pearls? Could they be naturals?

[bluelotus777]

This necklace is from the early 20th century. Something about the pearls struck me as unusual. They are definitely freshwaters, but they are somehow less uniform than Chinese freshwaters and they also don't quite resemble baroque freshwaters. They are 3-4mm in size. I am wondering, could they be naturals?

 

[Bodecia]

Hi bluelotus777,

I had a watch on those and in my opinion they are natural Arabian Gulf pearls. Nothing says freshwater to me and the clasp is a good one suitable for Gulf (Basra) Pearls. Did you win them? If so when you have them in your hands they should talk to you. It is always nice to see something in the flesh but if I had been buying I would have bid for them. If they are now yours I don't think you can go wrong but nice to hear what others have to say.


Dawn - Bodecia
http://www.ebay.com/sch/dawncee333/m.html
eBay Seller ID dawncee333 Natural pearl collector & seller. And all round pearl lover.

 

[bluelotus777]

Hi Bodecia,

Thanks for your input. I wanted them quite badly but someone outbid me What makes you think these are Basra pearls? And what is it about the clasp that makes you say it is suitable for Basras? I am always intrigued by finding out what you need to watch out for...
I came across an earlier thread with pictures of Mississippi river pearls on this forum, and I do see some similarities between these and the ones I posted:

https://www.pearl-guide.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3870

I try to learn more about natural pearls and train my eyes in spotting them...I guess the more you see the better you become. By the way, if you see a natural pearl necklace for sale, can you assume they are from Bahrain or Mississippi or are there any other places that produce natural pearls?

 

[Bodecia]

Hi bluelotus777,

It is a number of things about them, from shape to colour to lustre. They are small and baroque or freeform much like some necklaces I have, one of which is listed. I have round and off round too you could have a look at them but do have a look at these on my eBay site. http://www.ebay.com/itm/VICTORIAN-A...ACE-with-15kt-GOLD-PEARL-CLASP-/261323272605? because they look the closest and I am positive they are Arabian Gulf (Basra)
They look very similar, just larger and have even more weird and wonderful shapes.

It is not one thing you can look for and you will make loads of mistakes. I still do and cannot say for sure these are Arabian Gulf/Basra, Pinctada radiate, but to me they do look like they are. I would love to hold them and inspect them but that is just not possible.

Just checked the URL of Pattye's thread. I remember her buying them. I think they are the ones I spotted and started a thread here letting others know. They were listed as Mississippi pearls. To me they look like Arabian Gulf pearls. They don't look like USA River pearls I have seen but they have been found to be that. But I still think they look like Basra.

Per Sharon: "NGL does not have the requisite analytical equipment to independently certify the origin--natural versus cultured - of pearls. However, microscopic examination and ultraviolet luminescence response are consistent with client information describing these as natural Mississippi River pearls."

As for the clasp it is good enough for natural pearls. That is all I meant but I have bought natural pearls from a friend who buys natural pearls for me in the UK and some have come on beautiful clasps and others have had very ordinary barrel clasps or even ring clasps. But a clasp can be an indicator. Just not a positive one but then nothing really is.

As others have pointed out the word "natural" is used way too much on eBay. I think as naturals have become far more popular again and people have actually realised there is such a thing as real natural pearls versus cultured many sellers have decided to cash in on their popularity. They don't know what they are talking about but it doesn't stop them and if you ask them for clarification can be told that cultured pearls are natural and just saying pearls means imitation. What rot. They are trying to cash in.

When I sell my naturals I guarantee them for life, not just eBay or PayPal's time. Those times do not give someone time to have them checked if they want to. I also, with my guarantee pay the postage costs back, both ways.

I have bought some extremely good looking "natural" seed pearls which were actually imitation. PayPal backed my return and I got my money back but the women fought like hell over it. Naturally I lost postage costs but that is normal. Problem was the woman waited a while and then re-listed them as "naturals", again. She said her jeweller had checked them out as natural which of course was baloney. No way even a jeweller could make a mistake with imitation pearls and I have found jewellers useless - sorry to any good jewellers out there. I don't think all sellers who list naturals mean to scam and as long as they give you a good guarantee and you feel you can trust them I think it is okay. Make sure of their feedback but if they sell loads of stuff that won't help much because of the percentage system.

Truly you will only learn by making mistakes. I still make mistakes and only know when I receive them and even then often you have to check the drill holes or smash one or two. Don't do that to any large pearls. So many I have need checking via X-rays etc.

Those particular pearls look good to me and there seems to be at least a couple that have peeling of nacre but in a natural way. That is something you really need to see. But I will try to add close ups of some naturals with extreme peeling and damage.

I am sure others will give their opinions.

Hope I haven't repeated myself. Sorry if I have.

Dawn - Bodecia
http://www.ebay.com/sch/dawncee333/m.html
eBay Seller ID dawncee333 Natural pearl collector & seller. And all round pearl lover.

 

[bluelotus777]

Hi Dawn,

Seems like even the experts don't always exactly know what you have when it comes to pearls...I do see now what you mean when you say they are Basra pearls, but I also have not really seen enough natural freshwater pearls to be able to say whether they look like natural freshwaters or not. Out of curiosity, are there any tests that can distinguish saltwater pearls from freswhaters (regardless of natural/cultured)? I would think that saltwater pearls should have at least a tiny amount of salt in them, which should set them apart chemically from freshwater pearls. I would also love to hear opinions of anyone else here in the forum about what they think this necklace is?
Dawn, something has been on my mind lately that you mentioned in another thread - that there was some fraud going on with natural pearls where people would insert a natural seed pearl into an oyster, so that the end product would be solid nacre and indistinguishable from natural pearls. Are there many of these fraud naturals on the market and do you know anything else about this? I find it a bit worrying when thinking about purchasing natural pearls, that there are fake naturals that no one can tell apart from the real thing. You'd imagine that these fraudsters would still try to do this as there is a lot of money in natural pearls. What do you think?
I agree, on Ebay "natural" doesn't mean anything. I even believe that some sellers are not even aware that they are misleading customers. Some people simply don't know much about pearls and if it's made of nacre and not of plastic they consider it "natural". It is a bit hard to define the word "natural" anyways, let's say you have a carrot that was grown on a farm, would you call it unnatural because you haven't found it somewhere in the wild? I wished there were better terms available for distinguishing wild pearls from farmed ones and stricter rules on what you can use to describe them.
It would be interesting to know why the seller who sold Pattye the "Mississippi" pearls listed them as such, but we will probably never find out. It is a really lovely necklace though, she is lucky to own them!
I don't think you repeated yourself and it is always very interesting to hear your thoughts

 

[Bodecia]

Hi bluelotus777,

The fraud was with new pearls not antique naturals and the price asked for them was extremely high. So don't worry you won't come across them on eBay or any other site that I can think of. They would also be very, very expensive so doubt you would be offered them. I have no fear of being tricked by them as I only deal in antique naturals, the same as you would be looking for. We are not in that league.

There is a thread somewhere all about it. But I forget what it was called or who started it. Someone will know.

Can't really agree about what sellers call pearls. It is pretty straight forward, natural, cultured or imitation. We have all seem that it can be difficult to say for sure what kind of natural but that doesn't excuse sellers listing cultured as natural. Always ask questions if in doubt and get a guarantee. Mistakes can be made and as long as you can get a full refund that is okay but calling cultured pearls natural is not on and is often a scam. Even the beautiful cultured pearls with the Belle Epoque pendant were called natural.. I contacted the seller and she said they were genuine and had them checked out by her gemologist. She did say she new little about pearls but as soon as I got them I thought Akoya and when I checked them two drill holes were worn and showed the bead easily so I don't see how a gemologist or the seller could not know. I had offer to take a close up photo of the drill holes so she would know I was telling the truth but she said no need and I find that suspicious. Most buyers would have been fooled by them. Still as far as cultured go they are beautiful and the nacre is extremely thick. So very early cultured.
I have a pearl that I will take a photo of showing the back where it was cut to fit in a ring. It really shows how easy it is to be fooled. It is a stunner on top but the bead showed when I took it out of the ring. Great specimen which the thickest nacre I have ever seen but still cultured.
No blame on the seller there.

Just be careful and get a guarantee.

Dawn - Bodecia
http://www.ebay.com/sch/dawncee333/m.html
eBay Seller ID dawncee333 Natural pearl collector & seller. And all round pearl lover.