USGL - seller jewelry-certified

[luv2shop]

Hi y'all!
I am an avid eBay shopper and the other day I came across something that look a little suspicious to me. Wondering if someone 'in the know' can help me out here.
The seller is called:
jewelry-certified
I started checking because their feedback is private so I am thinking something may be wrong. Can someone check out a few of these auction? They have certificates from USGL for all the pearls, but there is such a big difference in the prices. I have checked the lab, and they do have a Website.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1886-7-MM-WHITE...026947798QQcategoryZ43084QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/1898-7-MM-BLACK...026942133QQcategoryZ43082QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/3017-8-0MM-BLAC...026876457QQcategoryZ43082QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Thank you for protecting the ebay shopper!

 

[jshepherd]

Luv2shop
First, luv your name!
Looking at the auctions you posted and the seller's other auctions, some things are very clear.
First, ignore the whole USGL cert. This is a worthless card that means nothing. The grader is either completely unqualified to grade pearls, or just intentionally creating misleading documents. If you notice, every grading card is nearly identical. They use the same pictures and the same descriptions. The way the pieces are graded is extremely poor as well. Some things to notice:
Every card states that the pearls are round - but many of the freshwater strands are obviously not round.
None of the cards states the type of pearl - this is like a diamond or other gemstone grading card calling all gemstones 'stones'.
None of the cards states the number of pearls.
All white strands are just white - with no overtones.
All non-white strands are simply graded as a color - none of them stating natural or treated.
Every card states the quality as AA and fine - many of the pictures show a strand that would not grade 'fine' to any professional.
Luster on every strand is 'Very Good'. I highly, highly doubt that it would compare favorably to any strand a real professional would grade as very good.
The last thing I always watch out for is the address of the grading lab. I do not trust any grading lab that will not give an actual address. Their address is Newport Beach is mail box - not a physical address.

The seller claims that the cards are for insurance purposes only, but I would strongly advise against using these cards for insurance purposes. The adjuster will either laugh you out of the office, or even worse, you may get hit with insurance fraud.

One other things I would like to point out is that the first auction you sent the link of is obviously a freshwater pearl strand but the title refers to it as an Akoya necklace.

What it all comes down to is this seller is not trustworthy. You will get what you pay for.

 

[mikehrz]

i'm curious, jshepherd, as to what specifically makes you certain that it's fw, not akoya. i believe you, since they do seem a bit off-round for akoyas, but i would like to learn what to look for to be able to ascertain a pearl's origin without seeing it in person.

something that makes the "certification" even more worthless:
"To evaluate our products, we sent one of items with the same specifications to USGL for a certificate card.
The pearl or gem ID card shown here is only for your reference, not included in the auction. To get certificate card for insurance purpose, please contact USGL on your own."

in other words, they sent some other necklace, not the one you're buying, to USGL. you aren't getting a cert card along with your item; you have to buy your own. for all we know, the scanned cert card is a total fake and never really existed in the first place. don't ya just love ebay?

 

[jshepherd]

Off-round Akoya pearls have a very distinct look to them as they still have a round nucleus. They 'tail' out near one edge. This is where they are always drilled as well.
If you look closely at the pictures in the auction you see several pearls that are off round and button in shape. This is not possible with a round nucleus. If the pearls were of better quality it would have been a lot more difficult to tell by a picture.

But may the seller is selling Akoya pearls and just using a random freshwater pearl picture. If the certificates are random I am sure the pictures are as well.

Maybe we should all file complaints with the JVC and the BBB about these labs that are creating these bogus valuations. We should at least send them emails/letters telling them that their fraudulent actions do not go unnoticed.

 

[luv2shop]

Those were my suspicions and now they have been confirmed. I really appreciate this forum. Too bad more shoppers on ebay do not know about it. So much time, money, and heartache would be saved!

 

[Caitlin]

I just woke up and I can get quite cranky before breakfast -if properly stimulated. I figured I'd toss off a letter to the "usgl"

Here is a copy: I am thinking of sending a copy to the ebay seller and asking him why his feedback is anonymous.

"Dear USGL
Who are you? Who founded this company? Who is a human behind this? I have never seen your company represented at the gem shows. You do not present information about or pictures of your operation. From what I can tell, your “address” is a mail drop and you are anonymous. You look like a scam for dishonest gem dealers, the second half of the con- the “appraiser”.

I got this address from trying to check out an ebay dealer who won’t post his feedback- that is suspicious enough- and he recommends buyers pay you for a certificate. Already, you have raised my suspicions, before I even get to your “site”!

What makes you any better than the local jeweler who at least has a name and a street address? What expertise makes you able to price pearls? Where were you educated in gemology? Especially pearls?

I am just one small granma who wants to buy good pearls at good prices- who has noticed you and your method of operation. Now, I intend to watch you and I will report you to the GIA and even, the agta or the glda and any other gem association who is run by real people that you are out here running some kind of anonymous outfit. I don’t need to know anything else except you won’t give up your id and other anonymous sellers on ebay are using you to back up their mendacious sales pitches on sleazy products. When they call an obvious FW pearl an akoya necklace, (as the seller I am referring to is doing) Will you back up that claim? They believe you will. They recommend using you!"

 

[Caitlin]

Here is a copy of my letter to the dealer:

"I want some good pearls. Yours look like what I want, BUT! Why do you hide your feedback? 99.1 is not a good score! You have been on ebay over 2 years. 99.1 out of a thousand is about 90 complaints per thousand? or 10 per hundred. That is a terrible record. Please explain.

Also what is the USGl card you want me to buy to authenicate my jewelery after i paid you for it? I went to their website and was offended by their anonynimity and their mail drop address. I intend to report them to real gem appraisers like the GIA.

Your return policy is for 5 DAYS! That is not enough time to get the necklace certified by these guys or a REAL appraiser like the GIA.!
What is up with you? I want to report this policy to Ebay, because it is impossible to accomplish in the 5 day return period.

PS I just looked at the pics of this necklace closely and the pearls look like off round FW, How do I even know they are really akoyas before i bid?"


Well I rarely get a chance to be so pertinacious before breakfast! I will report updates.

 

[mikehrz]

i share your frustration with sellers like this, but:
99.1% positive feedback=0.9% (.009) negative feedback=9 complaints out of 1000.
"10 per hundred" would mean 10% negative feedback, 90% positive which would indeed be a lousy record.
just thought i'd point this out, since the seller probably will and use it to justify ignoring you. don't feel bad, it's easy to make mathematical mistakes before breakfast. trust me, i know.

 

[Caitlin]

i hope you laughed! My math SAT kept me out of Stanford 45 years ago. It obviously hasn't improved! I have to edit this to say I checked it with my calculator before I posted! gigo.

I hope he does write back to correct me, he also has 55 negative feedbacks in the last year- a figure more like my mistakan math than his true lifetime score! 14 in last 6 months, wow he is really improving! or his sales have dropped. Still an embarrassing record, even if not public.

I have been looking for an ebay policy about sellers using links on individual auctions for buyers to buy off ebay services -through an eBay auction- even if the service isn't fraudulant, what does ebay get out of it? The linkee may get money using the ebay link and ebay gets zilch.

 

[Caitlin]

I checked out Ebay policies.

Having an outside link to a non ebay seller of another item or service on the ebay auction view item page is strictly prohibited. It is also prohibited on any other seller page. Other links as specified are permitted.

How much did the ebay seller get when i clicked through to the usgl site, even if I didn't buy? How much did Ebay get if i clicked thru, even if I bought? This seller is clearly unethical just from this action alone. Using Ebay to sell a service to help sell his schlocky stuff.

You can report 1-10 listings at a time for this kind of violation.

OK now for breakfast!

 

[Caitlin]

I put this on my clipboard, so I may as well paste it here:
Another bell ringer: 3 user IDs in 2 years:

User ID Effective Date End Date
jewelry-certified Feb-15-05 Present
jewelrykingdom Oct-28-03 Feb-15-05
gamesenterlives Feb-12-03 Oct-28-03

Ebayers check out your buyers! Make sure they aren't one you had a bad experience with under another ebay ID.

Also, there is no reason to buy from someone whose feedback is less than 99.9 in a thousand. The feedback is about the deal. I have given good feedback on returned items, for instance. Bad feedback means dissatisfied customers. Since even schlocky dealers can have good customer relations, double beware the ones who don't!

 

[PearlsAndJade.com]

Actually 99.1% is not bad. Powersellers are allowed to go to something like 98% ( I forgot the exact number ) before losing Powerseller status.

Obviously, the fewer total feedbacks, then the more a neg feedback will affect a rating. So that needs to be taken into consideration. A seller with 10 sales and one negative, will have a horrible feedback rating, while one negative will barely read on the scale for a seller with 10,000 or more sales.

The important thing is what does the feedback say, and that is what is missing with the hidden feedback. I would never buy from someone who has hidden their feedback, because they obviously have something to hide.

There are also bad eBay buyers who will make undeserved negative comments, and they are easy to recognize. One in particular, is that even with shipping clearly spelled out in the listing, they will complain about shipping charges after receiving the item and as a way to negotiate a lower shipping price will threaten a negative, or just go ahead and leave a neg that says something like "outrageous shipping fees", etc.

Bill

 

[jshepherd]

I agree with P&J. It is what the negative feedback says. I think the only reason they would want to hide their feedback is because someone has outed them. People are very hesitant to leave negative feedback on eBay. But if someone with a good knowledge of pearls received freshwater instead of Akoya, or realized the quality was not worth even the price paid, I imagine the feedback would be quite telling.

 

[Caitlin]

I totally agreed about buying from someone with hidden feedback! I don't understand why Ebay has that policy.

Well, I guess I am still cranky, because I think 55 negative out of 2311 in last year indicates poor public relations. Especially since there are many ebay sellers with 99.7 out of thousands.

99.1 is near the total cut off point for me for a seller with only hundreds of sales, but it would reflect some kind of negative pattern over thousands of sales and I would check it out or skip that seller altogether. 99.1 is not a "A-" in customer relations! It is more like a C-.

Sellers can respond to negative feedback. Since buyers are obligated to read the sellers' conditions, including shipping costs, it is really an illegitimate complaint. If it is about legitimate shipping charges, it is easy to refute in the feedback.

High shipping costs is a buyer beware point too. Exhorbitant shipping costs, such as can be found on many items from Hong Kong, is a reportable offense to Ebay, with its own category.

Sellers can refuse to allow buyers with negative feedback or 0 feedback to bid without a prior contact and it is always a good idea to put this in your sales terms.

The more knowledgeable I get as an Ebay trader the more wary I get of bidding. I always ask questions, and if I don't get fast answers, I don't bid.

 

[mikehrz]

his sales have slowed. doing a little math, he's averaged about 150 positive feedbacks for the last 6 months. over the 6 months prior to that (7-12 months ago) he averaged 232 positive feedbacks. assuming that every transaction is represented (which it probably is) that's a pretty substantial drop-off.

i saw that the pics and contact email are under handicraftcollection. com. so i did a little basic snooping and came up with this:
Registrant:
HandicraftCollection Company
7620 N. El Dorado Street #284
Stockton, CA 95207 US
Domain name: HANDICRAFTCOLLECTION.COM
Administrative Contact:
Wang, Ping wangpingx@yahoo.com
7620 N. El Dorado Street #284
Stockton, CA 95207 US
209-4761068 Fax: 209-4734968
could this be mr. jewelry-certified? he is at least honest about his location, which is listed on ebay as "CA." not to be stereotypical, but the name does sound chinese to me, which probably means chinese fw's are for sale, right? (anyone feel like making a few harassing phone calls? ) also, i find it interesting that the pearls are described as akoyas only in the item listing. the entire rest of the page just says "white." wonder what that means?

another interesting tidbit about usgl: their domain usgl.us doesn't list a registrar address. sounds like they don't really want you to find them.

 

[jshepherd]

Quick update, guys.

I contacted the USGL lab today and questioned them about their appraisals via email. At first they were a little upset, but then stated that the eBay seller was using their appraisals fraudulently and changing descriptions and other information. The said that they have sent a cease and desist, and they have tried unsuccessfully to have the auctions removed.

As an online merchant I have used eBay’s VERO program extensively to remove our pictures from auctions on eBay, so I sent them all the information they need to do this themselves. We will see what happens. As all the information such as physical address and ownership of USGL is hidden I take their response with a grain of salt. But if they are for real I am sure the auctions will be taken down within a week. If they are not, I am sure they will simply hope we forget about it…

 

[mikehrz]

for all we know, the scanned cert card is a total fake and never really existed in the first place.

boy, it sure feels good to be right!

 

[Caitlin]

I do not believe the usgl guy. He answered my email with the same whiney riff. He did not answer any questions about his training and qualifications. I think he NEEDS this ebayer's and others' business and he permits the link.

The ebayer is linking to the usgl on every one of his "view item" pages and that is illegal according to ebay policy. All the usgl has to do is report the illegal linking to ebay, esp since he is the linkee.

I wonder if he has a file at the BBB or the CoC in Newport Beach?

 

[PearlsAndJade.com]

Here is a link where one can type in a message to eBay stating the problem with a seller. This seller has the link in everyone of his auctions, and you can state that here and detailing where the link is. It is sort of hard to find. This actually discusses links from an eBay store, but it is a form where you can actually send a message, so it should be used in addition to the other link. http://cgi1.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISA... Rules for Sellers > Links from an eBay Store

Here is the link to report link violations. In this form you can only paste in the auction numbers, up to 10 per report. But you can send in many reports. If many people send in many reports then eventually something will be done.


http://cgi1.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISA...y Policies > Rules for Sellers > Links Policy

Bill

 

[sbq_pk]

Therez another person:
http://stores.ebay.com/Neimans-Jewelry
Neimans Jewelry who is giving away everything with certification of this USGL lab. See his prices. He sells e.g 0.16carat 14k VS2-SI3 ring for 88$. See other stuff from him as well. He has 17000+ f/b. Is he selling fake stuff? or very low grade?
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I am an innocent first time buyer