Pearl of Allah, Fact; Pearl of Lao Tsu, Fiction

[Caitlin]

I just had to post this.

A fitting "home for our "brain".

They are are asking 98million dollars

Those are real diamonds the one in the forehead alone is valued at 8 million

 

[knotty panda]

Caitlin: You just took 5 years off my life!

 

[salem]

LOL, it is totally perfect!! Honestly, some people have too much money for their own good it someone buys that. If someone combined the two, they could put the quote,"Beauty is only skin deep, ugly is to the bone", but change it to "...ugly to the brain." Lol, that is the best I can come up with now. Great photo!

 

[karipearls]

Thanks for the welcome

Thanks for the welcome

Hi again,

Knotty Pearl, Thanks for enjoying my website...it is a labor of love...love of pearls and the people who enjoy them. I have tons of items that I haven't listed yet...again, that crazy thing called, "time".

Caitlin, Yes, I am aware of the link to my site from Wiki....I have no idea who put it on. Anyone can easily remove it if they want. I just haven't taken the time to really look into it.

All I have on my site about the pearl of allah is a few paragraphs of the WND article and a link to the rest of it. I know not everyone likes WND, but I am a fan.

Yes, my post was a coincidence....I didn't know there was such a discussion going on and really didn't know where to make my post. Thanks for putting it in the right place.

Thanks too for the welcome. I'll try and show up once and awhile.

Kari

 

[salem]

Hi Kari,

Oh, I am so thrilled to see you posting here. I put up a link to your site in the beginning of May under a thread called Interesting Pearl sites. I was hoping more people would reference other good sites for reading, but my post remained solo. But I am so glad to have a chance to tell you how much I loved your site. You have some fantastic videos that I enjoyed very much. I hope you stick around!

Jen

 

[Caitlin]

It (the Pearl of Allah) has been carbon dated to 600 B.C..[4]

wikipedia

Carbon dating is a variety of radioactive dating which is applicable only to matter which was once living and presumed to be in equilibrium with the atmosphere, taking in carbon dioxide from the air for photosynthesis.

hyperphysics

How can a pearl be carbon dated? When was it alive and exchanging co2 with the atmosphere?

Please note that #4 at the top, it links to an ppraiseal that mentions the appraisor has read paperwork and also refers to a carbon dating document. Now this is in question,also. Bigtime.

 

[Caitlin]

I am trying to find info on carbon dating pearls. Here is Peter Fankboner (who has a lot of credibility in pearl circles) discussing abalone pearls found in ancient Chumash sites:

Prehistoric Use of Pearls by Man
The history of mans' use of pearls as gemstones is also of interest to me, and in this regard, I have been examining anthropological collections of Chumash Indian abalone artifacts curated in U.S. museums. For instance, collections of Chumash Indian burial artifacts at the Santa Barbara Museum of Natural History include pearls which evidence features clearly abalone in origin. These natural abalone pearls consisted of many typical tusk and baroque-shaped examples, which apparently been mistaken by anthropologists in past for polished, mother-or-pearl beads. Carbon-14 data accompanying these Chumash burial artifact collections suggests that it may be possible to pre-date man's first use of pearls to nearly 8000 B.P.

To me this clearly indicates that the abalone shell or pearl itself wasn't carbon dated, but other artifacts near it, were. That is also a record-setting age for human use of pearls, too, but that needs its own thread.

 

[Caitlin]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Here is an aside, but interesting quote, mentioning dating coral seashells, etc

Electron spin resonance dating
This dating technique measures the electrons of the mineral hydroxyapatite trapped in the crystal structures of teeth, coral, or seashells. The greater the number of trapped electrons, the older the specimen. Electron spin resonance can date tooth enamel, coral, or seashells as old as 1 million years.

Here is their summation of carbon dating- same page as above.
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

Carbon-14 or radiocarbon dating
When an organism is alive, it contains a ratio of carbon-12 and the isotope carbon-14 that is the same as the ratio in the atmosphere. When the organism dies, C-14 decays and the ratio between C-12 and C-14 changes. Scientists measure this change to determine when the organism died. This technique works on organic material, such as wood or bone, younger than 50,000 years.

[/FONT]

 

[knotty panda]

I love it! Now THAT makes sense! That whole carbon dating thing never did ring true with me.

 

[Caitlin]

I was sceptical about carbon dating a pearl. I want to correct my earlier statements, for the record, when wanted to know if it can be done. Well, it apparently can.

I talked briefly to Dr. George Burr of the U of AZ physics lab about carbon dating the tridacna pearl. He said he had carbon dated a lot of Tridacna shells but imagines the pearl can also be carbon dated. He also said that the top layer of the ocean is 400 years old and the shells test to that date. He also said to get a good reading on a big pearl, you would have to drill into the core to get at the oldest material

I really resent the Pearl for Peace foundation for making readers do the research on swuch a famous pearl!

That might indicate they are getting the message!

This is still a disgracful example of putting forth an unban legend and hoping people will believe it without references!

 

[Valeria101]

I just had to post this.

YEAH! One of the interviews run in the press with the author quotes him saying that he was afraid that the result of this project would turn out hopelessly Kitch 'like an Ali G ring'... and that he finds it exalting instead.

IMO, it it too outrageous to be real Kitch. Somehow, the association manages to be demeaning both to diamonds and the human race... somehow. Not sure what a person more appreciative of either diamonds or humanity would make of it

I've shown the article to a few folks: most find it disturbing, a priest said it invites contemplation, a fashionable friend said that she would like that to happen to her skull after death Wish Hirst could record impressions in front of this object... that would produce another work of art for free, LOL!


I wish I could travel to see it in London

 

[knotty panda]

Attached is a link to the legacy of Lao Tze http://www.legacy1.net/lao_tze.html. No mention is made of a pearl or an amulet. But then again, my Chinese is a bit on the rusty side.

Sorry to do a Wiki link on all y'all but, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laozi; biography on Lao Tze. No pearl references here either.

 

[jshepherd]

This is getting very interesting indeed...

I just went to the PearlForPeace Website to read some of the claims. Caitlin and Knotty Panda are on the right track with this. The whole legend is not only impossible, but a complete fabrication. In order to propagate this fabrication the Q&A section is fabricated as well.

The first question asks whether the pearl was x-rayed for the amulet. The question is not answered. Instead an obfuscating response refers to the "form" of the amulet. It also says that the pearl grew for 400 years, and it was carbon dated to 600 BC.

1. An amulet would have to be affixed as a mabe pearl, and each successive nucleation would have to be a mabe pearl. Otherwise the pearl would not grow, as a pearl sac would not be present. The pearl is not mabe, it is a whole pearl. Mabe pearl culturing did start in China, but not until the 12th century, almost 2000 years after Lao Tze. Whole pearl culturing technology was not even explored until the 1800's - The pearl is a whole pearl.
2. The Giant Clam has never, ever been successfully nucleated.
3. They say the clam was lost in the 1700's, yet found later when a child had his foot caught. The Giant Clam lives for about 70 years max, not 200 years. It closes slowly, impossible to get a foot stuck in.

Keep going Caitlin and KP! You are getting to the bottom of this! You are 100% right in that the legend is a complete fabrication.

 

[Caitlin]

Hi Jeremy
The pearlforpeace foundation is changing its story as fast as I can copy it.

They cited a mensa article- feb 1969 by WD Cobb with the first version of the Lee legend in their changed webpage. I got a scan of it from mensa as I did of the Nov 1939 AMNH article rom the AMNH. No references in either article, both of which are full of absurdities.

Both of Cobb's articles are now the sole source of claims about the history of the pearl.

AS there aren't any references and as so much of what Cobb said is unverifiable, I do not think either article will stand up to a critique.

I got 20 or so online sources when I Googled Tridacna clam- drowning.
PM me with your email address if you want a copy. I have sent copies to Jeremy and Panda so far.

Every single source except a poem from 1901 says there is not a single authenicated case of a tridacna drowning a human.

But first, consider this: Three reasons are given why a tridacna can't drown a human.

The mantle is completely draped over the shell. If a diver could not see the bright blue or other bright color of the clam before he put a hand or foot into it, he could certainly FEEL it was flesh and most anyone would yank the body part away.

The squirt tube has to empty of water before the clam can begin closing. It takes several seconds to do this.
Also, adult tridacnas do not close their shells completely.

So we have cuaght ole Wilburn D Cobb in repeating an urban legend in the first few paragraphs of his story. If you read his articles you will see he is quite the braggart!

Also Lee's authentication the AMNH authentication, the Ripley's drawing (it is such a terrible reproduction of the page, that any kind of change would not show.) all say it was authenticated as a tridacna clam and the largest one ever found. It could not authenticate the age.

Nary a sign of the carbon dating lab report has shown up.

The pearl has not been xrayed either

I am aware that the foundation for peace is reading this. I join jeremy in challenging the story of a loose pearl being transferred into the ever increasing Tridacnas.

There is simply no record here, or in China, that anyone was EVER able to culture a loose pearl in a tridacna clam.

Nor is there any proof that any member of the enormous Lee family has ever been told or repeated this tale, let alone the instructions about transferring the pearl into larger and larger Tridacnas.

One last question- Why in the world would the Lees transport a tridacna clam on a boat? Where is that knowledge mentioned?

They had the knowledge of transferring the pearl. Why not take the pearl out and replant it at the destination? If it was not transported in a huge tridacna, then how did the pearl miraculously fall into a place under the open mantle of a new tridacna?

One more last question- how did they have the ability to find ever larger tridacnas and get them out of the ocean before they transferred the pearl?

I thought of another question. Lao tse was a legendary figure. No one has been able to prove he even lived or what era it was. However all accounts connect him with XIAN a place thousands of kilometers from any ocean. When he "went away", it was to the far northwest....

How did he get his miraculous knowledge of jade nucleating a tridacna? No pearl has even been successfully nucleated with jade ever since. Jade would show up as a different density in the gemological xrays that have been developed since the Lee Sparrow days, if indeed it was ever xrayed.

 

[knotty panda]

Jeremy: Interesting? How about compelling! Positively consuming and compelling and absolutely fascinating!

 

[jshepherd]

The entire legend has as much validity as the flat earth theory. It is complete legend. I have no problem with legend, but to have some person or group trying to convince people that such a ridiculous story is true is nearly insulting. There is not one piece of that legend that can possibly be true. Every single "fact" about the pearl can be proven wrong easily.

And that appraisal... are you kidding?! It is not worth the paper it is printed on.

Check this out as well! V.B. Joseph Estate Jewelers in Sarasota. I would be willing to bet that V.B. stands for Victor Barbish. The owner of The Pearl of Allah runs a pawn shop in Sarasota, Florida!
http://www.marketplacelocal.com/por...rintitem&itemid=36729551&eadvertiserid=801898

 

[Caitlin]

I want to point out that the "legend" is sprinkled with unprovable facts that mix the legend into a muddle of so-called fact and fiction.

The second visit from a Mr Lee is a good example: a date, a bank, and a town are mentioned in the body of the legend.

Is it supposed to verify the rest of the legend by associating it with unverified "facts"?

Since the Pearl-Guide forum comes up so high in the rankings, a lot of people are going to realize there are problems with the age related claims made by owners of the pearl.

 

[jshepherd]

But they do not have to prove that Lee did or did not visit. Whether he did or not is completely irrelevant. His description of the legend is biologically impossible. To many people outside of the pearling industry or those who know very little about how pearls are formed, the legend may be a little far-fetched but at least feasible. But to those who do understand it, it is like hearing that this Chinese guy built this special flying device 2 thousand years ago and went to the moon, where he then carved out a face, which later became known as "the man on the moon"!
The whole story is utterly ridiculous.

 

[Caitlin]

Once is coincidence, twice is a pattern. [Confucius says ]

Ole Wilburn D. Cobb has testified to an urban legend about the young man who drowned and he obiously made the one about the pearl up. That's twice. His credibility is shot with me.

Strangely, even though he boosted the price to 3,500,000 clams, the pearl's real value was $200,000 because that is what it brought, decades later.

I think his motive in propagatng the story was to boost the price. Doesn't that make him a flim flam man? And to think of the poor innocents who are still trying to stick up for this story!

 

[Caitlin]

Nearing the Panglima's house, we were greeted by sounds that seemed to be the climax of some Mohammedan celebration. ....... In this image (of the pearl) the Panglima was startled to discover a resemblance to Mohammed. Then as his excited servants stood in awe, the old man prostrated himself before the pearl and began to pray. It was this act of religious devotion that incited the frenzied celebration throughout the whole tribe which we were now witnessing.

WD Cobb in AMNH bulletin 1939 #44


Moslims do not pray before "images" of Mohammed. Cobb could not get away with saying that today.....

Are we up to 3 or four?