More knotting trouble

[Mervione]

I?ve picked up knotting again. I kinda got how to make the knots themselves now, using the method that the PearlParadise does. But the trouble is the gimp... I can?t get it over the silk thread! It would probably work if the silk thread was only double where I?m threading the gimp but it?s 4 strands at the ends of the necklace where the needle is, at least the way I?m doing it. I think I?d just have to re-thread the needle if I didn?t double the twin silk thread where the needle is. Not sure if this make any sense? Anyone have any suggestions or am I doing something wrong?

I knotted a full 17 inch strand earlier, happy because I felt I was finally able to knot, and then I just couldn?t sort the gimp part out. Sigh.

Do I have to use thicker gimp? Thinner thread? Both? The annoying part with knotting is that you have to try so many different threads, threadthickness, different needles (I make my own!), different methods etc... At least it?s funny when you can do it properly.

 

[Cathybear]

If the thread thickness is working for your pearls you could try thicker gimp, or, instead, what about if the last 3 pearls you leave 2 threads dangling and only put 2 threads though the pearls, put on the gimp, the clasp, and come back through the pearls then knot off where you left the dangling threads?
I'm not sure of the method you are using, so this may or may not work for you. I may also not be explaining very well.
Cathy

 

[Mervione]

I?m not sure if I understand. What I mean with saying that I have four strands that have to go through the gimp is that I use two strands of silk and then when I thread the needle the two strands stick out on the other end, making it four strands. I?m using this method btw: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O12P1OaMCe8 Just watching it makes my fingers itch for something to knot...

Do you mean that I should only knot the last 3 pearls with one strand of silk? Going to try with a thinner threadthickness and thicker gimp anyway, hope it works. Thanks for taking time to help me.

Another question, since I can?t find 14 k gimp I?m wondering if vermeil would work instead? Is the plating likely to wear off?

Also, I?m about to place a big order on FireMountain on pearls for knotting, just because it?s so fun. Anyone got experience with their pearls? I don?t require any superquality, just not bad quality either.

 

[Sueki]

Hi Mervione,
Don't use two single threads and then thread both through the needle.

Instead, use one single thread, and thread it through the needle, and pull it through until it's a double thread and knot the two ends together.
You just need to make sure that the single thread is long enough when doubled to do the job.

 

[Mervione]

Sueki:

Wow! Why didn?t I think of that?! Big thanks!

 

[Sueki]

Age, m'dear, age........

Seriously, enjoy the knotting and do show us some pics. when you've finished.

 

[Mervione]

Age is a good thing, isn?t it?

I could show you pictures right now but you wouldn?t get to see any of the clasp because it looks like a total mess...

I understand why it?s best to use a single thread and double it, but what about the other end where you knotted the two ends together? There will be two tails from it, and I?d end up with 4 strands through the gimp on that end... Am I just misunderstanding it?

 

[Pearl Dreams]

Bottom line is that 4 thicknesses of silk or thread have to go through the final pearl(s) on both ends-- right? Doubled silk, through the end pearl the first time, then through the gimp and clasp, then back through the end pearl. But then to knot between the end pearl and the 2nd-to-end pearl, there are 4 threads to cope with. What kind of knot to make there, and with all 4 threads?

This is why I use beading wire so much. *sigh*

I get it figured out...sort of...and the next time I go to use silk, I'm mixed up again.

 

[Sueki]

Hi Mervione,
I've p.m.'d you as it was a rather long explanation.....

 

[Cathybear]

I use a single strand of the thickest silk I can get through a pearl twice. (I use Guderbrod, and have it in FF (thickest), F, E and D. I use FF and F the most often. Also use the very finest needle I can find. I place a bead buddy on the end of the silk, thread on all the pearls,(which I've already laid out on my bead board), 2 metal beads and then gimp. Then half the clasp, go back through the metal beads and one pearl, knot using a larks head knot. I continue until I get to the last 3 pearls. Remove the bead buddy, thread that end of silk onto a needle, and do as I did on the other end.. add gimp, other half of the clasp, bring the needle back through the metal beads and first pearl, knot, next pearl, knot, third pearl, knot, tie off with the thread I left dangling. Add a dot of jewellers cement. When its dry. snip. Done. If you have trouble keeping it snug when you're knotting the first pearl of the second end, try doing up the clasp first.

 

[Pearl Dreams]

Cathy, how do you seat your knots tightly using only the one thread?

When I first began knotting I used one thread (with an attached needle) and used tweezers to place the knot-- and it looked great when I was done.

But very soon afterward, the thread stretched and the knots were no longer tight up against the pearl-- either that or the knots became tighter and made the thread appear to have stretched.

That is why I decided to try using doubled thread next time. Unless I can learn how to seat the knots nice and tight without having to pull doubled threads apart to do so.

 

[Cathybear]

I pull it up against the pearl; often I do the knot twice, depends on the size of the pearl and how snug the silk is in the drill hole. I also let the weight of the unknotted pearls pull on the silk as I work.

 

[Pearl Dreams]

I pull it up against the pearl; often I do the knot twice, depends on the size of the pearl and how snug the silk is in the drill hole. I also let the weight of the unknotted pearls pull on the silk as I work.

Thank you! I've done the double knotting; now I'll try letting the weight of the pearls stretch the silk.

 

[Cathybear]

I had to restring the necklaces I did early on. It could be just a matter of practice, though I thought it was the silk I was using when I started. I was buying it in Australia.. not much choice. When they ran out I looked farther afield and bought from Stachura in the US. I preferred the brand they had, plus they had lots of choice in thickness and colour. Also Caitlin had reccomended Beadalon collapsible eye needes from Craftland (?), which I really like. I mostly use Fine, sometimes Medium.

 

[pearlescence]

I use a very fine darning needle through the knot itself to be able to manoeuvre the knot very snugly into position. Then, when I am ready with the next pearl I can pull out the needle with one hand and use the pearl held in the other to shove the knot really tightly into place while pulling the thread taut.

 

[knotty panda]

Here's a diagram of using a tool to move the knot into position to "seat" it. You can use an awl, a darning needle, or a straight pin is what I use.

http://www.beadworksboston.com/beadopedia/techs/pdfs/knottingawl.pdf

Ignore the double thread in the diagram. This works for single thread too.

 

[Mervione]

Thanks everyone for the help. I?m going to place an order of different size of silkthread, beeswax (I didn?t use any kind of wax at all! Will be interesting to see what difference it does.), some proper needles and thicker gimp. Will play around and hopefully find a solution...