Knotting?

[Mervione]

I?ve decided to start learn to knot. As I?m a naturally inpatient person I didn?t read any guides when I first tried out how to knot, so I just took two threads and pulled them both through the bead and did a knot, but the knot came out about 1 cm from the place where it should have been, after trying it a little more I was able to make the knots where they should be. Is this method wrong? It looks a bit like the one in the pearl-paradise knotting video on youtube. But then I was reading about the method on this page http://www.firemountaingems.com/beading_howtos/beading_projects.asp?docid=7915&doccat=tutorials , it doesn?t say if it?s for actually knotting beads and pearls but it looks like it so I tried that method since it seemed easier. The knots came out really tiny, and I could just pull the pearls I was knotting right over them, so I decided to string with 4 threads to make them bigger, but then they were way to big for the drillhole. So I tried with 3 threads, same result. So now I?m wondering:

1. Is the problem that the drillhole is too big/small?
2. Is the problem the thread? (No idea what it is made of. Cotton?)
3. Is this method completely wrong anyway?

Thanks.

 

[Caitlin]

What size thread are you using?
Maybe going up a little in size will do it. Here is my trick for checking the hole size with the knot size. I take a doubled thread on a needle and pass it through the bead. Pass the needle back thorough the bead and pull. If it goes through, the thread is the right size for those beads. To check if the thread is too small, tie an overhand knot and push the bead over it. If it goes over, the thread is too small.

Some posters do like to use 4- 6 even 8 strands, so the thread needs to be small for that to work.

I like to use a needle with a doubled thread. I string two or three beads and attach the clasp then go back and knot. (There are whole threads about this subject on this forum.)

After the clasp is attached string the rest of the beads/pearls on and proceed to knot them between each pearl with a simple overhand knot. When the knot is seated, separate the two threads and pull. Even if the knot is a centimeter off it will slide into place.

There is a technique to flipping the beads though the overhand knot loop on each overhand knot. If you do it very close to the last pearl pushed up against the already knotted ones, the knot will be in the correct place. Still, separate and pull the threads to really snuggle it in there. I also give a pull of the strung bead each time to be sure there are no kinks. if there are, another tug of the twp threads will unloose the kink.

I also recommend you use actual beading thread. A trip to a bead store is a good idea. there are a couple of other tools to make your job easier. They are on the Tool Thread.You can buy a little spool of Nymo in almost any color for just $2-3 for your first tries. Buy in a small, medium and large size depending on the size of the holes in your pearls and or gemstones. Often the pearls have a larger hole than the gemstones. Smaller pearls have smaller holes.

If you buy silk on a card, make sure it does not have a needle attached. The one string knotting method is hard to master and really quite unnecessary to use. Buy beading needles. The twisted wire ones come in thin medium and thick.

Check out the stickys on the Lowly Beader's Forum for much more detail.
Happy knotting!

 

[jerin]

Hi Mervione,

there is a post of Caitlin where she takes you step by step through the process.

Freshwaterpearls do have very small drillholes so it is important to use a thread that is suitable. Read about it all amongst all the posts on The lowly beaders club....

Let us know who it goes!

 

[pearlescence]

I think the problem is that there are many different methods of stringing and knotting pearls- and as for how you attach the pearl strand to the clasp - more permutations still.
I've seen good work done with a patent tool which could get you arrest for carrying a dangerous weapon, the Chinese style seems to be to pick have continuous strands and feed the whole length of pearls through the knot each time. I use a very fine darning needle to keep the knot 'open' and moveable until I am ready to place the next knot..slide out the needle and simultaneously pull the thread and shove the next pearl into place - makes good tight strands. I've seen tweezers used for this too, as a variation.
At the ends you can just tie off, thread back through if the silk is fine, or enlarge the end pearl holes, use french wire or not, use calottes, crimps.
I would love to see the back of the Queen to see how her pearl necklaces are made...or the Duchess of Cornwall who nearly always wears pearls (often the same three strand with the amethyst clasp)
I'm adding a photo of her wearing this

 

[knotty panda]

I don't think nymo holds the knot well at all. (Maybe it's just the one and only spool I bought.) I'd try a different synthetic before I'd do nymo.

Pearlessence: I think there are so many different methods because everyone works differently and you truly do have to see what's best for you. I can't imagine using tweezers. But I do use a straight pin if I need an awl in the same way you use the darning needle. It's a good technique when the thread absolutely, positively, needs to be kept straight during the stringing process. It makes finishing so much more cleaner and easier than snuggling the knot down by separating threads.

Mervione: There's no right way or wrong way. Just use the way that makes you the least nuts!

 

[Caitlin]

Maybe Nymo it doesn't hold knots well with the one thread version of knotting, but it is fine for the much easier two thread knotting. To defend two thread knotting- it is shown in the knotting video Mia made in China (see stickys in Pearl Books and Resources for the thread put up by Jeremy) It made fine knots in the 20mm or so SS pearl necklace Mia's knotter was making. 2thread knotting is also used by the demonstrator in the video I put up on knotting. , so rest assured that most of the professionals use one doubled thread (or more) with a needle. For an inexpensive book on many knotting techniques, try Henrietta Virchek's book, Pearl and Bead Stringing

I mentioned Nymo because it is cheap, found in so many stores online and comes in as many colors as silk. What if you decide to take it apart several times before you get it right? There is no reason not to start with silk, but the stuff on the cards is relatively expensive for only 6 meters or so ( If you can find it without a needle) and a spool of silk thread is around US $12.00 for 1000 meters or so (found at Bella's Findings at $6.00 wholesale price). That's a lot of thread in one color for a beginner. For $12 you could get 4 spools of Nymo (or other colorful synthetic) in different colors.

The nuances knotty is talking about hardly apply until you develop your own preferences, which you will do.

Hey knotty.
What did you mean by this?

It makes finishing so much more cleaner and easier than snuggling the knot down by separating threads.

Finishing what? Attaching the clasp? As for the knotting itself, refer to my bracelet in the Silk Challenge thread. Those knots are perfect little beauties. Knotty, you have never put up any pictures to illustrate your knotting, so I am knot sure what you mean. It would be very nice to have photos of what you mean.

Never mind. I found my picture from the silk challenge. This was knotted with Power Pro beading thread. Powerpro only comes in white and moss green, which is why I didn't mention it. I can't think of any synthetic thread with as many colors as Nymo, but any brand of BEADING thread you find will do. (don't use sewing thread unless you find some of knotty's 1000 denier silk from YLI. I can't find any YLI in Tuscon or online except for on the YLI site which is not retail.)

 

[la_corsetiere]

. . . so I tried that method since it seemed easier. The knots came out really tiny, and I could just pull the pearls I was knotting right over them, so I decided to string with 4 threads to make them bigger, but then they were way to big for the drillhole. So I tried with 3 threads, same result. So now I?m wondering:

1. Is the problem that the drillhole is too big/small?
2. Is the problem the thread? (No idea what it is made of. Cotton?)
3. Is this method completely wrong anyway?

Thanks.

Just to throw in my two cents, I've had very good luck using a synthetic beading thread called Silamide. It comes in a number of colors, is very slightly waxed (you can't feel it), holds knots well, and has less of a tendency to shred than Nymo. I use the "easy" method of stringing all of the pearls first using a fine needle (maybe size 13 or so) and doubled thread, then doubling back and making a half-hitch knot around the original thread in between each pearl. If the knot seems too small for the drill holes, I just double-knot it, or even triple if you have an odd overly-large hole. The knot is always right in place, as you can push the beads right next to each other as you work so the knot has no choice where to go. I like the ability to pre-string the necklace to make sure I'm happy with the arrangement, also the security of knowing the necklace is quite strong, with ultimately four threads going through each pearl. You just need to remember to allow plenty of thread, or be prepared to add thread on the way back (which I did a number of times on my 9+ foot long monster Tahitian rope.

Also, do remember to use a very fine needle - sometimes the problem is getting the eye of the needle to go through a hole where there's already thread. If you get the needle partly through but it seems to want to stick, helps to have a pair of pliers handy to gently pull it through the rest of the way.

Hope this makes sense, and good luck!

Sheri

 

[pattye]

Caitlin,

That surely is passing the test! The pearls look great, and the knots completely unstretched.

Sheri, Glad to hear of your experience with another knotting style, and different type of thread.

Gives us lots of choices! I just have one huge chore to finish before I can start knotting---taxes---yes, I know, say no more, Big Procrastinator here. Once finished, I can bead and knot away with a free spirit---------

Pattye
so many pearls, so little time

p.s. Camilla is looking pretty good, eh? Or is it the pearls??

 

[Caitlin]

Hi Sheri

Silamide is a good thread. So is polymer thread and the cotton/polymer from Kay Gee threads in Australia, which Bernadette uses.

How do you do a double knot with a half hitch knot? That would make a great photo essay. I have never used any knot except a simple overhand and larkheads, which I also don't know how to double.

 

[Mervione]

I didn?t have any idea there were so many methods of knotting! I will have lots to try before I can come back to this thread I?m afraid.

 

[Caitlin]

I hope you enjoy the quest.

 

[la_corsetiere]

Hi Sheri

Silamide is a good thread. So is polymer thread and the cotton/polymer from Kay Gee threads in Australia, which Bernadette uses.

How do you do a double knot with a half hitch knot? That would make a great photo essay. I have never used any knot except a simple overhand and larkheads, which I also don't know how to double.

Hmmmm...maybe I'm using the wrong name when I call it a half hitch knot. It's just your basic simple knot (like an overhand, but going around the original thread on which you strung the pearls). To double-knot, you just do the same thing right over the first knot you tied. I should shut up now, as this is probably utterly incoherent...

Sheri

 

[Caitlin]

Your other post was good too. It's clear. I don't know if an overhand around another thread is called a half hitch or not.

Now let's see if I can explain this: I make a double knot by passing the strung beads through the loop of the overhand knot twice, then pull it tight.

I read on this forum that if you have a carrier thread like you use, you can make larkshead knots between the pearls. It sounds like what I have done with micro-macram?, so it would work fine.

It's a bit off-topic, <old folk's musing.....>but I used to make a living from making micro-macram? barrettes and earrings with 14 strands, up to seven colors possible.- with beads in various parts. I only used overhand knots and larksheads except when finishing the ends- then a square knot there. I used upholstery thread size 18 which comes in a lot of colors. A size 12 seed bead will slip right onto the thread, so I imagine a lot of pearls would too....... ho ho, I brought it back to pearls!! I should do one with pearls!