ID help requested please!

[massrog]

The lady who had these liked them and makeup too I think!

 

[Pearl Dreams]

Wow. Just wow.

Bath time!

 

[massrog]

Here it is after a quick bath. Initially I'm happy with the results. My wife wants it shortened from 21" to 18" max which will allow us to eliminate the small/worn pieces. The hallmarks are an eagle head and a fleur de lis with a 0. would that point to French origin?

 

[massrog]

A few shots of my attempts at candling

 

[Pearl Dreams]

Looks like a bead nucleus (parallel stripes in mother of pearl bead.) So, akoyas, I think.

There seem to be more than 3" worth of worn out pearls to remove...the necklace may be even shorter than 18" when restrung.

I don't know anything about the clasp but others may weigh in. It is pretty! Will you test the stones?

 

[Parrot Lady]

Wow, what a difference a bath made.

 

[massrog]

Wow, what a difference a bath made.

Definitely, particularly the clasp (still needs work).

 

[multichrome]

I love them and think they have so much character. That clasp is truly oh la la. Speaking of oh la la, if it is truly French, you might be able to look up that platinum hallmark on the web somewhere. There are zillions of silver hallmarks, but I can’t imagine there are as many Pt hallmarks. Thank you for sharing this cool piece. Also I’m very relieved that the bath did them so much good! I was afraid they were goners!

 

[BWeaves]

Wow, those were well loved and worn to death. I think shortening and removing the worn down pearls in the back is a great idea. The clasp is gorgeous. I think the bath and restringing are going to make a beautiful necklace.

 

[massrog]

Looks like a bead nucleus (parallel stripes in mother of pearl bead.) So, akoyas, I think.

There seem to be more than 3" worth of worn out pearls to remove...the necklace may be even shorter than 18" when restrung.

I don't know anything about the clasp but others may weigh in. It is pretty! Will you test the stones?

Are you referring to the bottom 2 pics in my post above? I find about half of the pearls have the parallel lines defining a dark center running perpendicular to the drilled axis like those shots and the bottom one here. The rest have more irregular blob or
non parallel irregular lines/fissures if any darkened areas at all like the top 2 above and the 2 candled shots here.
I also imaged some of the worn smaller pearls and the top row seem to have no center and the lower row do (particularly the 2nd and fifth full from left).
I have read several threads on candled pearls and one thing that stood out was Dave saying look for patterns and it seems to me that the linear dark center represents one. I am still a little confused as to how the pearl so consistently develops around that type of nucleus or is the dark section only part of the bead?

 

[Pearl Dreams]

Sorry, I am at the limits of my knowledge about natural pearls. Perhaps someone else knows more.

 

[Orient]

As a general rule you should be able to tell bead cultured pearls from natural or non-bead cultured pearls by what you see down the drill hole. Since the vast majority of bead nuclei are white FW shell what you should see is a boundary between the shell nucleus and pearl nacre overgrowth with a faint yellow to white graduation (white pearls) from the surface the deeper/thicker the nacre is until you reach the boundary and then the centre should look more white or cream (even colouration throughout). If you try and look down the drill hole from the other side you will see the same, perhaps more clearly, perhaps less clearly. Just have try from both end of the drill hole. Natural pearls on the other hand are a graduated white/cream/light yellow/yellow/orange or black when you look down the drill holes. You cannot really use this technique to separate natural from non-bead cultured as they are similar. It only helps with BC v. natural/NBC. Try on some loose pearls and see if you can put the theory into practice. Hope it helps.

The cleaning really did help improve your necklace a lot. The broken pearl at one end should allow you to see the internal structure of that one pretty clearly!

 

[massrog]

As a general rule you should be able to tell bead cultured pearls from natural or non-bead cultured pearls by what you see down the drill hole. Since the vast majority of bead nuclei are white FW shell what you should see is a boundary between the shell nucleus and pearl nacre overgrowth with a faint yellow to white graduation (white pearls) from the surface the deeper/thicker the nacre is until you reach the boundary and then the centre should look more white or cream (even colouration throughout). If you try and look down the drill hole from the other side you will see the same, perhaps more clearly, perhaps less clearly. Just have try from both end of the drill hole. Natural pearls on the other hand are a graduated white/cream/light yellow/yellow/orange or black when you look down the drill holes. You cannot really use this technique to separate natural from non-bead cultured as they are similar. It only helps with BC v. natural/NBC. Try on some loose pearls and see if you can put the theory into practice. Hope it helps.

The cleaning really did help improve your necklace a lot. The broken pearl at one end should allow you to see the internal structure of that one pretty clearly!

The problem I'm having is that the knots are keeping me from seeing down the drill hole and the broken one on the end has no nacre left. I was hoping someone would opine on the non nacreous centers left on the worn out small pearls near both ends as to the make up. I don't really see any rings from natural development but I don't know if the shape is from wear or the shape of a shell nucleus. Thank you for the help!

 

[Orient]

You will probably need to share some close-up shots of the smaller pearls so we can see better if we have any chance to help with the ID from images which is risky at best. When it comes to the knots you can usually still see enough with the right technique. You just need to get your finger-nail behind the knot and move it out of the way with some slight pressure while looking down the drill hole. Only recently strung very tight knots are troublesome in this respect. Most other knots are manageable. It takes experience like all things but is possible. Failing that cut the thread and look down the drill holes of the loose pearls. You mentioned you were going to do some selecting and restring it as a new shorter necklace, so should be possible.

 

[massrog]

Please excuse the quality of the pics but here are a few close ups.

 

[amti]

What a lovely clasp! Have you tested it to be sure it is platinum, and are those stones diamonds? What about the end caps? I see some green discoloration on a closeup of the clasp in the first post. I don't have a lot of experience in natural pearls either but some of the candling does look like a bead, whereas others don't. And those pearls at the end have definitely seen better days. The nacre is gone. On the candled photos with irregular shadows, which pearls did you candle?

Do a search for natural pearls and candling. There were some pretty good posts on it a while ago.

 

[BWeaves]

The pearls are cultured. The shell bead in the center was coated with nacre. The nacre has worn off at the widest part of the bead that rubs on skin and clothing. Even the shell bead at the center has been worn down, and is now barrel shaped.

 

[massrog]

The pearls are cultured. The shell bead in the center was coated with nacre. The nacre has worn off at the widest part of the bead that rubs on skin and clothing. Even the shell bead at the center has been worn down, and is now barrel shaped.

Thank you BWeaves. I am curious as to what shape the bead was to start. There are several of the smaller pearls that still have nacre throughout but have small areas of nacre that has "peeled" down past the lustre to the bead layer and the have the same oblong shape exhibited in the more worn ones. I have read several threads and some other sources that seem to indicate shell beads have "growth rings/layers" . Most of the pearls with the exposed beads exhibit no indications of linear grain or really any grain at all. I have not been able to glean from my reading an indication of what the inside of a natural pearl would look like under the layers of nacre. can anyone give me a description or the source of an image? thanks again to all for the help!!

 

[Pearl Dreams]

Hubert Bari's book Pearls has a number of photos of cross sections of natural pearls (and cultured pearls.)
https://www.amazon.com/Pearls-Gener...6?keywords=hubert+bari&qid=1580958215&sr=8-36

Other than that, you can google images using search terms "natural pearls cross section" and you will see a few images. Natural pearls don't all look the same in the center.

 

[Orient]

Thank you for the new images massrog. I would agree with the ID being bead cultured on the smaller pearls per BWeaves feedback. The white matte areas in the centres look like the exposed shell bead nuclei. Just one observation based on previous experience "don't necessarily dismiss all as BC because a few (most/all?) at the ends are cultured. It is not unknown to have necklaces where some are natural and some are cultured." Just something to keep in mind and with graduated necklaces possessing nice clasps this factor should at least be in the back of one's mind.