How to stretch silk

[Mervione]

I?ve been wondering for a while how you?re supposed to stretch silk? I was reading the Silk Challenge thread earlier and someone suggested to iron it? So I tried that (it was wet) and then I pulled it. It snapped. (Dont think I?m stupid, please.) Did I pull too hard? Am I supposed to use my hands to stretch it? Yesterday and hanged the strand horisontally with beads on it to weight it down, is that a good way to stretch it and if so, how long should it hang? Thanks.

 

[Nerida]

Mervione, I am interested in this too. I have been using some brand of silk, ironing it first gently then waxing, and all OK with my knotting. Powerpro is also fine. But this week I used Gudebrod size E silk, and it kept breaking! What am I doing wrong? Have I stretched it too much? All very frustrating, as I thought I had this knotting thing almost sorted.

 

[Mervione]

Uh-oh. It is Gudebrod I?m using...

Maybe just a bad exemplar of thread you got? Hopefully...

 

[Caitlin]

Waxing it is the best way to stretch silk thread. Run the thread across the wax, allowing it to form a groove in the wax and pull the entire piece of thread through the groove. Do this 2-3 times. You can put some-a little- tension on it. I wipe the excess wax off the thread from end to end.

So I tried that (it was wet) and then I pulled it. It snapped.

Stretch it gently a foot or more at a time.

Is the Gudebrod size E doubled? I have heard other complaints about the quality of that brand, but I found it just stetches and stretches......

I know knotty -a dyed in the silk type- uses YLI 1000 denier silk thread.

Maybe we should explore different brands and report back. Actually after a long career with silk, I try to avoid it.

So much of beading is figuring out what works for you.

 

[Sueki]

Caitlin's spot on - I pull the silk across the block of wax, hard and tight enough to cut into the wax.
And I did have a problem with the silk breaking when I first began knotting.
Then it dawned on me that the silk was catching every now and again on my dishwasher's hands - it's a bit like putting on nylons with rough hands - you know how the nylons can catch on skin....... and no, I don't often do dishes, but do have sensitive skin and my hands are often chapped in winter.
The answer is to use plenty of hand cream when stringing - often replenishing every half hour.

 

[knotty panda]

Interesting. My gut reaction is it's the thread. I'm not the least bit gentle with it. I grab the end with the chain nose and pull it through the wax, pressing my thumb nail against the wax causing the silk to stretch when it pulls through. It's like working with wire, you have to work harden it. I pull and I mean PULL it through with a chain nose. I have long nails and I have a groove in my thumb nail that the silk created, pressing the pulled silk into the wax. The only time I've had the silk break is if I knot the strand to hard and really slam the knot into place, which I've been known to do.

If I was going to iron it, and I've got to try that some time, I would hold a steam iron down, high steam, and pull with the chain nose several times, really working it. The other thing I've considered is a ceramic hot iron.

By the way, has anyone tried dental floss? I wonder how cost effective that would be. Sueki, can you back knot gemstones with PowerPro or do you have to use a bead tip?

 

[Nerida]

Sorry - wasn't explicit enough. I did wax the thread as well, as per your advice on another thread, Knotty. I guess what was different for me this time was that the knots would not budge at all - on whatever I had used before, and I can't recall the brand - I could do Caitlin's trick of separating the threads, and moving the knot right down onto the pearl. This time when I did that, the silk kept breaking. I just finished a strand of Tahitians that I had started 6 times!! Frustrating!!

PS I always avoid using hand cream when knotting - I'm afraid it will make the silk oily/dirty?? I've even contemplated wearing cotton gloves to stop the silk absorbing oil from my hands...

 

[knotty panda]

Wow. You're using an overhand knot? I can't imagine a knot that doesn't move. I still think it's the silk. Weird.

 

[Sueki]

Oh, Lord, I'm still up !
Really must stop reading this forum at night....
Knotty - Yes, I back knot through gemstones with Powerpro. Hate to admit it, but I don't even know how to use bead tips as I decided to stick to back knotting and French wire when I decided to learn to knot; wanted to stick to as few learning processes as possible for the ever-ageing and feeble brain cells.....
Sometimes I have to ream the gemstones.
But I never have to ream pearls when using Powerpro.

Nerida, I keep the hand cream to a minimum and make sure it's well rubbed in before I knot.
However, I have found that different colours of Gudebrod behave differently. And even different spools of the same colour. So maybe the breaking is something to do with the way the silk is spun or twisted ?
I will say that Powerpro is becoming more and more favourable for me.

 

[Nerida]

Knotty - yes, a simple overhand knot, and then the knot just did not budge one bit with this silk. It is Gudebrod Champion Silk Thread, size e, this one black, but also a white one kept breaking.... thought it was me. It has, however made me more adept at single thread knotting (not fun) and being much better at placing my knots - I eventually did get the Tahitian strand done okay.

Sueki - I live and die by hand cream, so am happy that you use it comfortably when you knot! I am impatiently waiting for an order from Artbeads to come with my new supplies of powerpro - but what do you use for dark pearls?

 

[knotty panda]

Single thread knotting. Yuck-a-duck! Doable but no fun. Sueki, do you wax the PowerPro? I've never even see any PowerPro. Have no idea. Is it smooth or textured? Curious.

 

[pattye]

Just a thought, if I remember from my fabric study classes, silk is weaker when wet. Found a reference that sez 20% weaker when wet. So pulling very hard on it when wet may actually be damaging the thread. The actual quality of the silk that went into the thread is something only the manufacturer knows. If they use shorter pieces of silk, obviously the thread will not be as strong as when they use the very long filaments. More plies and tighter twist on the thread will make it stronger. Has anyone looked at that thread which is breaking through their loupe? As I mentioned, just some musings---BTW, each cocoon yields 1000 yards of filament!

Pattye
so many pearls, so little time

 

[Nerida]

I think Mervione had her silk wet - mine was dry - I used it several hours after stretching it with steam then wax. Right now I want to throw all this silk far far away, but I need the powerpro first. I do find it (powerpro) easier to work with, if somewhat harsh on the hands.

 

[Nerida]

Never ever want to do single thread knotting again if I can avoid it!

 

[pattye]

Well, Nerida, I hope that knotting job will last a long, long time! I can certainly imagine how frustrating that was! I have some silk in my stash, but may just start with powerpro, and save myself a major headache.....

Pattye
so many pearls, so little time

 

[jerin]

Hiow to prepare silk before knotting

Hiow to prepare silk before knotting

Hi all members and guests,

I am just so surprised to hear to which lengths you all go in order to stretch and prepare the silk before knotting! I use many different types, Gudebrod?s champion silk as well as Powerpro, Detolon, Ceramic Thread and Silkon, most of these materials I have in different thickness sizes.

Power Pro is a fishing line, the feel is like dental thread minus the waxing and it is smoother in its roundness than dental floss.

When using silk I never do anything at all, possibly I wax the beginning of the thread to get it through the needle eye, if using stiff needles.

Just as Sueki says, colour and different spools of the silk can act differently, sometimes I?ve had troubles but I do pull the treads apart when making the knot and it never has happened that the tread has been broken.

Besides that, once you can knot you don?t have to prepare the silk, which I think is unnecessary work as you can restring any strand if need be! Considering the knotting as a fun job, I don?t mind the extra job and money if I have to buy some more spools.

Power Pro is a bit hard on the fingers but it is very easy to get the knot exactly where it belongs, that can be a problem with the silk sometimes. The worst problem as I find is that the silkthread does split up in the different threads, which makes is very hard to slip it through the eye of the needle and despite waxing this can be a time consuming process!

As for dark pearls and Powerpro: there is the mossgreen thread and as the knots are very neat and small, they do not disturb the whole strand, i.e. you won?t think of the colour as it melts in with the dark pearls. Power Pro comes only in white and moss green as far as I know.

To all who knot with only one thread: do learn to work with double thread, it holds better and I have a feeling that it might be easier to get the knot right next to the pearl, which is good for the look of the necklace.

 

[Nerida]

Inge - thank you once again for our wisdom! I especially like the thought of looking upon the knotting as a fun job. I was starting to enjoy knotting (with a double thread) until this disaster started a few days ago! I haven't got any moss green powerpro on order - do you buy it from ArtBeads? Maybe I've just got a dud batch of Gudebrod at the moment...

 

[Sueki]

Hello to all,
Nerida, yes, I use the moss green Powerpro for the dark pearls. It blends perfectly with the Tahitians, but heaven knows what I'll decide to use for the other darks such as a strand of deep lavender freshwaters, which in some lights looks for all the world like a strand of paler Tahitians....
Of all the colour silks that I've used, I've found the black silk to be the most difficult, temperamental, fiddly and just downright pain in the neck to use.
I put it down to dye processes. I don't know, but the black colour seems to be so much weaker than the paler colours.
So I'd guess that the problem you had was down to the silk, not the user....
I've only ever used Gudebrod, so can't speak for other brands.

Knotty, yes, I do wax the Powerpro; just one run across the wax. I'm sure it doesn't need waxing, as it states on the spool that it's pre-waxed.
But I tend to err on the side of caution.....
And yes, the Powerpro is smooth. No loose filaments to fluff up and catch on gimp, or puff up and fill a drill hole so's you can't get the needle back through the pearl, or catch on rough hands and break.....

I bought the moss green from a fishing supplies merchant. It works out cheaper as you can buy 150, 300, 500 or 1000 yards on a spool.
Just wish I could buy white in those quantities. I think in the U.S. there is more chance of finding it.
Over here, the choice seems to be red, flourescent yellow or moss green.

 

[jerin]

Inge - thank you once again for our wisdom! I especially like the thought of looking upon the knotting as a fun job. I was starting to enjoy knotting (with a double thread) until this disaster started a few days ago! I haven't got any moss green powerpro on order - do you buy it from ArtBeads? Maybe I've just got a dud batch of Gudebrod at the moment...

Nerida,
I bought my Power Pro from "Anglers Center" in California, email: orders@anglerscenter.com.

www.anglerscenter.com

I bought it last year, the spool was 300 yds, dark green and cost 23.36 $ + shipping 6.75 (Standard).

But yesterday I was browsing at www.jewelrysupply.com, they have it too in white and green. Don?t remember the price though or how much there is on a spool.

 

[danachit]

I run once through the wax also, pulling firmly as it goes through the wax. After doing so, I just wrap the doubled silk around my CLEAN hands and gently, but firmly, pull...moving my hands down the length of the silk.