How old is this pearl ? Play again !

[Satine De La Courcel]

Lets see This last one looks to be Visigoth approx 7th C. not sure where from Spain possibly. I think. the first one is also Visigoth in style they tended to suspend their crowns above their heads not really wearing them. Possibly same time, maybe a his and hers "set"

Like them both but I like Crowns, Tiaras coronets etc....

I have a Question, In your travels ( Lucious Pictures by the way) did you come across many/any Persian Pieces? I am looking or pre 1600 C.E stuff.. Would you be able to point me in a direction to look?

Thanks
Ash

 

[CLICLASP]

Congratulations, you are perfectly right !!!!!!!!!!!
- Visigoth, story does not tell if King + Queen crowns...
- VII century
- Spain, found near Tolede in 1861, Guarrazar treasure,
These crowns were not worn but suspending for devotion, they show :
- sapphires, emeralds, amethyst, glass, mother of pearl for the first crown
- amethyst, sapphires, emeralds, rock cristal, glass, pearls for the second

From Wikipedia

The Visigoths were among the Germanic peoples who disturbed the late Roman Empire

The Visigothic Kingdom was a Western European power in the 5th to 7th centuries, created in Gaul by the German people of the Visigoths when the Romans lost their control of their empire.The Visigoths' second great king, Euric,forced the Roman government to grant them full independence. At his death, the Visigoths were the most powerful of the successor states to the Western Roman Empire.

The Visigoths also became the dominant power in the Iberian Peninsula, .
Visigoths played key roles in the empire of Charlemagne a few generations later.

 

[CLICLASP]

So here you can see the pearls
what's the stones of these? (sorry bad pictures)

 

[jerin]

It looks as if there has been Amethyst, Quarz Cristal and perhaps Tourmaline or Emerald used. But as there are many gemstones that look alike, it could be something else too.....

 

[Satine De La Courcel]

The gemstones are most likely Amethyst, and emerald. which were well used in many pieces.
Tourmaline I am not sure how "far back" it goes as far as being a true historical gemstone used in jewellery over 400 years ago kind of thing not recent history, 1700 and forward I think its "relatively new" and Quartz would have been classified as "Rock Crystal" Neither of these I see here.

As for teh Visigoths stuff. It was a lucky guess..

cheers
Ash

 

[CLICLASP]

This is what Caitlin tells us about Europe :

Europe

The Romans brought pearls back from everywhere they went, so naturally, they began bringing freshwater pearls home from European rivers. Although this search is not recorded river by river, it is quite certain that the Roman lust for pearls ignited a search that eventually reached into every river bed in Europe emptying them of pearls, though not all into Roman coffers.

From the fall of Rome, when royalty began to emerge in Europe, the new elite valued pearls, fished the rivers and traded for them. The crusades fueled the pearl trade from the Persian Gulf, so the European elite increased their stores of pearls.

So these pendants above come both from votive crowns, same period :
- first : glass, gold, pearl, no stone sorry you fell down in the trap
- second : from King Recceswinthe crown, a famous one, garnet, sapphire, gold, pearl and glass cabochons

Pearls might have been found in european rivers, and sapphires might come from Indian route, so pearls should come from there too.
And when stones were missing, they used to put glassbeads instead.

Itsn't it really cute, could be one of our earrings? with your initial on like King Recceswinthe

 

[Mervione]

What freshwater mussel in Europe is able to produce pearls?

 

[CLICLASP]

What freshwater mussel in Europe is able to produce pearls?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freshwater_pearl_mussel

 

[jerin]

Hi CliClasp,

I am so used that only "noble" materials are used together with pearls so not even in my wildest dreams I would have thought of glass being used instead of Rock Crystal or even "nobler" stones

 

[CLICLASP]

So Let's jump in time

How old are these ones ?
What are they made for?
Which stones, when and where are they from ?

play again

 

[CLICLASP]

Hi CliClasp,

I am so used that only "noble" materials are used together with pearls so not even in my wildest dreams I would have thought of glass being used instead of Rock Crystal or even "nobler" stones

I was teached that stones did not appear so precious untill "recently"
since Egyptians, when the goldsmiths missed stones, they replaced by glass.

 

[La Contessa]

Ahhhh - me thinkest:

first pic: ummm - :0 okay - crescent moon - nicer bezels than second - rubies - sapphires and maybe waterfall? sapphires (the lighter stones) - amethysts - peridot -
(OBVIOUSLY - I am not a Gemologist
I think with the finer work and more precious stones - pendant? eastern influence - Venetician merchants in Antioch during the late 1200's?

second picture: shoe buckle? Amethysts - garnets - opals (the blue stones?) - pearls.
Maybe same time frame but rougher craft because it is worn on a shoe.

I thought I could start it off - now I will begin my hunt for some facts!

 

[jerin]

Hi CliClasp,

well even if I am wrong most of the time, that does not keep me from guessing anyway: these look like Renaissance to me, the second one is probably a shoe buckle or used in a belt perhaps? Time: 1500 - 1630 or the Renaissance of the 19th Century.

The first one could be a breast ornament or a pendant. Used stones: unless they are not glass, I would guess again at Amethyst, Rose Quarz, garnets or Rubies, emeralds or maybe light green glass bits, maybe sapphieres and of course pearls (probably freshwater). It is a bit hard to see whether the stones are facetted or cabochons, the latter cut belonged to the Rainessance.

 

[CLICLASP]

Dear pearls hunters,
We are here for fun so no worry if righ or wrong, it's good letting imagination makes proposals of where and when.
There has been so many often revivals in art that it can be from so many different periods.

You are close about where, when and what stones
But very far about how is was used and worn

search again

 

[Caitlin]

Was the bottom one used to fasten capes or mantles?

The top one is a pendant or made to sew onto something?

 

[CLICLASP]

You're very close now!
try again

 

[La Contessa]

The first one a pendant to hang from a horse's bridle?

 

[Satine De La Courcel]

I am thinking 1300's possibly 1400's seems earlier that 1500's to me for some reason to me. but depends on if they were from eastern europe , Italy or western europe. styled developed differently in these regions

and for Noble materials it was stuff that sumptuary laws forbade the "common Folk" to wear which at one time or another was just about everything gemwise including pearls, I am convinced that glass beads were developed to immitate the "noble gems". My reason for this is so people appear wealthier than they were . its a vanity thing and well humans we are vain.

I do agree with others assessment on the gemstones but I to am not a gemologist..

This is a fun game. Keeping History stuff alive I like it!

cheers
Ash

 

[Caitlin]

The first one a pendant to hang from a horse's bridle?

That is a clever guess. The Navajos make and wear a kind of traditional necklace with silver squash blossoms and a pendent called a "naja" hanging from it. It was told to me that the najas were inspired by the Conquistadors' bridle pendents. That or something like it must have been the inspiration.

Maybe the bottom one is some kind of horse accoutrement as well. They'd both look good on Arabian horses.

 

[La Contessa]

I remember reading somewhere about the Medici and how they bejeweled their horses as well.

An Arabian would be very nice

I come back Venice and their outposts they had so many opportunities to see how the "other half" lived. The Franks were in awe of eastern cultures and their opulence.