Freshwater Vs. Saltwater

No I am guessing on the basis of Strack 2006. I was all over Strack this AM and haven't been able to find it again. She said they were still working on the glue for the powdered shell nuclei. Now, hearing there are 20mm nucleated pearls according to Tom and another forum member (Nerida) who have seen them, and they are smooth pearls, makes me want to look in the direction of artificial nuclei, or the price would be so much higher.
 
The Chinese CFWP industry has led the world pearl market in experimentation and innovation. Just the improvements in the last 4 years are astounding.

We need manufactured nuclei more to keep prices down on huge pearls. Even so those of us that caught the solid nacre gem quality CFWP wave, will be glad they invested.
 
Maybe the info is here and I missed it. I read where someone said Freshwater is more durable the Saltwater pearls. I was wondering if anyone had any actual information on this.
I have my own opinion on this and was wondering if there is any science available.
Personally I think Freshwater pearl nacre is lighter in weight then saltwater nacre. And so not as dense. But that is only my opinion. Does anyone know the facts on this?

If we are going to try experimenting, perhaps we could begin with something simple like measuring the time it takes to drill salt water keishi of the same size as a freshwater keshi. Given the science mentioned here that says natural pearls are molecular density of 2.6-2.75 vs 2.72-2.78 for cultured pearls I'm wondering how much of a difference there is between species. I think getting the bead out of the way might help.
 
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My first question here is about the Strack information. As I haven't yet purchased the book: does anyone know, when she says "the density of cultured pearls is", what cultured pearls is she talking about? SS, Tahitians, CFW? Because they must all be a little different.

Or is she comparing natural SS to cultured SS?

Thanks,
barbie
 
I found a good paragraph on p 286.
Pinctada:
Specific gravity:
calcite = 2,71
aragonite = 2.93

s.p. of pearls ranges from 2.6 tp 2.74. Average is 2.71

"The actual figure depends on the individual composition of the pearl and above all on its conchilione content"

Then there is a list of 14-15 other kinds of pearls from mussel to haliotis pearls to conch. Nautilus is not on this list. They are all a bit different and they all have overlapping ranges.

Maybe some one with a copier can scan and upload it. Effisk did that before.
 
It is my understanding that coefficient of expansion and specific gravity are two different qualities. How do they relate in terms of their use in pearl nuclei?
 
thanks for an very much interesting article. It is a bit strange that we pearl lovers never seem to be much interested in the shells, although they protect the pearls and the life of the mussels.:)
 
HI J
Thanks for for clarifying that. I don't have a clue what the difference is. I think I have been meaning to talk about specific gravity.

Hi Inge,
I think it is a natural progression as one learns more about pearls. For me, I started with nacreous shells when I was a tot and have used tiny nacreous trocus shells in my beading for decades. I didn't get to the pearls until much later. I sort of collect pearl shells. I have some huge p maxima salad plates, a bunch of haliotus shells of different species, several of which I found by beach combing, nacreous mussel shells, and akoya shells. I want some radiatas and pteria shells, maybe placuna (I used to have some) and Lamprotula.

Maybe the pearls are rare and precious, but the shells are beautiful and relatively inexpensive. Oh Yeah, I have a nautilus shell that I love. It has a nacreous streak in the spiral next to the porcelaineous streak. I actually found a faitly large fossil shell with the distinctive swirl of the nautilus, on the ground in my yard! (Tucson was once the bottom of a sea) To me, seashells are the flowers/birds of the ocean, though I only collect samples of the nacreous ones.

I am all for including nacreous shells or just pearl producing shells in the forum. Pictures of each of the pearl bearing shells, including conch and others could be added to the forum in their respective their respective threads.
 
Dearest Caitlin:
Thanks ever so much for the specific gravity information. (Couldn't think of the word 'specific' yesterday fur 'nuthin.) Even with such close overlap in species, I would imagine that things like weather, lattitude and longitude,hot and cold, years of growth, etc. would account for some small changes in the sp. gravity of individual pearls also. However, I also imagine each species will remain within its general perameters(sp?) most of the time.

Query: If 7.25 pH in the blood is acid, and 7.50 is base,(for comparison): given the numbers we are talking about regarding pearls, does this mean an answer to the original question is that freshwater pearls are softer or harder than Tahitians?

Quite a few of you know a lot about stones. Any ideas?

I see from Strack that the specific density of a natural saltwater pearl ranges between 2.6 - 2.75, and a cultured pearl measures 2.72-2.78, so the presence of a bead nuclei doesn't seem to make the pearl all that much more dense, although Strack mentions that the composition of the mineral content in the pearl does play a factor such as too much conchiolin, which can make for a dull, greyish cast. Interesting stuff
(Amanda)

I'm still wondering if this refers only to PPB's or if cultured CFW's are also more dense.
 
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Hi Ana
My mother-in-law used them as salad plates. They are perfect for a little papaya/avcado salad with some cute lettuce. I don't use them because I like a much bigger helping of salad.


sidebar:
I have been invited to talk about pearls a couple of times- to non-pearly people. I take a regular oyster shell, a salad plate, the akoya and some mussel shells as well as some unusual pearls- like my Bay of Cortez pendant, my Bahraini pearls, some freshwaters in various colors and qualities and a single large, undrilled, colorful beauty from josh.

My last score from Jeremy with the CFWP strands- I got 32. Kether and I sorted them into A, AA, AAA and AAA freshadamas. I only got 1 A quality which was very large, almost barrel shaped pearls with rings, and incredible metalic iridescence though they were low in shine otherwise. I would now take one of each of these
the next time I get to talk.
 
Do you use them for serving? Any rules?

MOP tableware is really affordable. Their purpose is to eliminate any metal taste that greens pick up. They also make salad sets in wood which does the same thing, but it's more costly, I believe. I have a set of caviar spoons in MOP. It's the same principle. Caviar picks up a metal taste. Obviously you want to wash them in warm soapy water before any leftovers dry on them and don't put them in the dishwater. Other than that, they are a treat. Flatware with MOP handles can go from very affordable to very expensive depending on whether its inlaid or a solid piece.
 
Good to hear. I was worried what acidic or strongly pigmented foodstuff might do to MOP. No longer.

The shell-plates just solved a hell of a gift conundrum for me!
 
sidebar:
I have been invited to talk about pearls a couple of times- to non-pearly people. I take a regular oyster shell, a salad plate, the akoya and some mussel shells as well as some unusual pearls- like my Bay of Cortez pendant, my Bahraini pearls, some freshwaters in various colors and qualities and a single large, undrilled, colorful beauty from josh.

My last score from Jeremy with the CFWP strands- I got 32. Kether and I sorted them into A, AA, AAA and AAA freshadamas. I only got 1 A quality which was very large, almost barrel shaped pearls with rings, and incredible metalic iridescence though they were low in shine otherwise. I would now take one of each of these
the next time I get to talk.

That's a great idea. I really wanted to make up some grading swatches of short pearl strands to show at talks, but haven't had a cost effective way to do it. Hmmm.... ;)
 
Good to hear. I was worried what acidic or strongly pigmented foodstuff might do to MOP. No longer.

The shell-plates just solved a hell of a gift conundrum for me!

I have no use for caviar spoons. I've always wanted to use them with my tea. I always thought that would be very decadent. But I've been afraid. Nice sets, no matter how inexpensive, are hard to come by.
 
Caviar is another luxury item that is completely lost on me, like truffles :rolleyes:

And I seldom buy anything for the house that does not go into the washing machine or dishwasher nowadays :D

DK :)
 
Mussel nuclei that size , if procurable, would be very expensive. I think these are the nuclei Strack talked about, which appear to be in production now. The nucleus is made of shell powder and a chemical glue formulated specifically for this use. It that yields a perfectly smooth surface that nacre loves to coat.

Hi all- sorry about my absence on this very interesting topic, but I'm Anti-Internet on the weekends :) Caitlin- I haven't heard about much progress in that area- Strack is a teensy bit outdated in terms of manufactured nuclei info. However, I do know that bironite had some very interesting promise, and that there are a few companies out there working with vapor encapsulated nuclei which is a coating around the bead that allows for lower quality beads to be used in Akoya culture (which would be fabulous since the American mussel shell industry does not really manage their resources). However, I have not heard that they've taken the industry by storm yet- I wonder what's the holdup?

There is no farming or husbandry done with the American pig toe mussel (et al) since the best specimens that fetch the highest prices are about 15 years old- many salvagers don't think that farming the mussels is worth the time, effort or money- admittedly expensive- and rely on their dredging methods instead. This means that every year, the best mussel stock is not replaced in any meaningful way, and prices for creamy white, unblemished nuclei is rising. To keep Chinese Akoya farming competitive, bead costs must be kept low and they are keeping an eye out on developments in this area since the beads are becoming quite expensive. I venture this is another reason why Josh is using his margaritifera shells for nuclei- it's a great way to duck the cost of buying the little suckers in bulk, and with Tahitian pearls, you don't have to be so concerned with whether there is any discoloration on the bead. But they still need to be perfectly round and smooth, since the outside nacre layers will reflect the imperfections found on the bead.

I very much think that T. gigas is used in a majority of the Fire Balls- I concur on that count. I don't really think that China is concerning itself too much with CITES at the moment, and they do farm T. gigas anyways, since they are considered a delicacy, and many South-East Asian cultures enjoy the flesh.

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since I am not a physicist, and the earlier question was an excellent one, so I decided to do some research to further clarify my ideas, and to expand the discussion a bit more. :) The relationship between specific gravity (or density) to the thermal coefficient of expansion is dependant upon the specific material used (in our case, we're mainly speaking about freshwater shell) vs. measurable outside temperature changes. The reason is that during heat transfer, the energy that is stored in the intermolecular bonds between atoms changes. When the stored energy increases, so does the length of the molecular bond. (source: Wiki)

A material's specific gravity or density is a weight to volume comparison, and it is measured against water: a material greater than 1 water atm (4 degrees celcius aka 39.2F- this is the preferred measurable temperature universally as this is when water has it's greatest density) will sink, a material less than one atm will float. Materials that are 2.7 or less are considered light materials, any material weighing 4-4.5 are considered dense and heavy. If the bead measures 2.7 SG, it is 2.7xs heavier than water.

The coefficient of thermal expansion as it relates to Freshwater shell material depends upon the temperatures the material is subjected to. I would think that the denser a material is, the slower it heats and cools, however you are placing more strain on the materials' structure and will have a higher chance of damage the more stress the material is subjected to; imagine water freezing in a crack of a boulder over a period of years- eventually the boulder shatters as it's solid, frozen atomic structure does not handle being forced by the presence of water and ice very well...

As we know, water, gas and solids all have varied reactions to temperature. In the case of T. gigas nuclei vs. FW mussel nuclei we'd have to do an experiment, since very little information exists on the subject (at least that I could find... perhaps us pearl nuts are the only interested parties lol). In addition, I was not able to locate the T. gigas' SG anywhere, and I googled and googled and googled. While the content of the pearls' nacre in both cases is the same (CaCo3), the saltwater clam shell and freshwater mussel shell have varying trace minerals that would need to be observed and subjected to strictly controlled temp changes to see which bead cracks the nacre first. Who has a lab? :D:cool:
 
Really good information
Here is an article from Biron manufacturing an Australian business that produces bironite. LINK

Here is a tidbit of the article relating to current discussion:
Bironite
In 1995 Biron, a created emerald manufacturer and gemstone distributor in Perth, was approached by the industry to develop a new nucleus material. The material had to be less expensive and readily made, to be white and have properties similar to mussel shell especially in regard to its ability to be drilled by the traditional steel spade ended pearl drills.
Biron is grateful to the Commonwealth Government for recognising the merit of the project and providing an IR&D grant over 3 years to pay half the expenses of the work. Dr. Michael Snow, a professional chemist and Director of the company led the development work.
With Mr. Artur Birkner, Dr. Snow has been able to develop selected dolomite mineral material as an ideal alternative to mussel shell. It is white and it is not colour banded nor does it have directional properties like mussel shell. This means it does not split in the lapidary or on drilling.
Bironite is a natural dolomite that has been modified by a patented process to overcome these deficiencies. It remains mineralogically very similar to the original material except that its drilling properties are substantially improved. See the table of properties.
The Bironite nucleus has been trialed by the Australian company Atlas Pacific Limited in Indonesia and is to be trialed by three Australian groups starting this year. Atlas Pacific by the way is stock exchange. We are also grateful to Paragon Pearling and South Pacific Nucleus for lapidary work. Pearlautore and Linneys at Broome and in Perth helped us with drilling tests. The S.A. Museum gave advice on minerals.

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Here is an older P-G article on Bironite. LINKhttps://www.pearl-guide.com/forum/tahitian-pearls/2948-12mm-up-pearls-where-you-hiding-now-3.html
 
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I would also think that any manufacturer would have to disclose that they'd used a synthetic material (bironite) as a nucleus, which might spook buyers down the line. I heard the bironite was a tad expensive, and personally had thought that the vapor encapsulation process offered more in tangible results, a better bottom line (since we can now use imperfect nuclei for pearls with minimum nacre coating without unsightly strata), and a natural material, which wouldn't cause too many concerns in the realm of disclosure... But neither has made any real headway in terms of the modern commercial market. Hmmm...
 
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