Elephant Pearl

[Slraep]

I'd have to agree with you there, Caitlin... Some of the "pearls" that I've seen online seem to reside wholly in fantasy-land. Shall I refer to that old thread regarding so-called Coconut pearls? Lordy, how I wanted to skewer Z on that one!

Hi Ashley,

How fitting it is that Zeide be mentioned in a thread discussing the fantastic elephant or coconut pearls? She should definitely be lumped into the same category. She certainly has the same phony make-believe traits.

Some of these "exotic" mani are made from elephant tusk ivory and it should be noted that India and many other countries, under wildlife protection acts, forbid the sale or trade of these items(even if bogus gaja mani) without registration and permit.

Slraep

 

[Valeria101]

Wait a minute...

... even if not 'pearls' or anomalous elephant body parts, there seems to be a little market for the things as religious, historic or ethnographic artifacts. What could such objects have in common with the larger category of mollusk-originating pearls used for adornment rather than religious or scientific contemplation ?

Frankly, I am not 100% convinced there is no such thing. Just 99%.

 

[sumavapersians]

elephant pearl forum

elephant pearl forum

Hi Valeria.
No. It was not for you. This is the message with an erroneous web address posted for a new member as me, Pbazar:

Pearl world on elephant pearls

http://www.pearls.com/news2/pp22/elephant.pdf

Regards,
Ignacio

 

[sumavapersians]

elephant pearl forum

elephant pearl forum

Hi Caitlin.
A thing is very clear, elephant pearls do exist, even if they are really difficult to find out as are controlled by India or Ceylon governments as they are true national treasure.
You say my pearl is pretty small to be an elephant pearl. Ok, 20 cts is approximately 4 grams. Well, to make a true GajaMani with 108 elephant pearls could be around 432 grams but probably more as not all these rare pearls are with the same weight. So 432 gm is a nice weight to bring on the neck. If must be bigger, who could bring these necklaces???
Sorry for my English
Ignacio

 

[Caitlin]

Hi sumavapersians

You say my pearl is pretty small to be an elephant pearl

. Who said that?

A thing is very clear, elephant pearls do exist,

It is not at all clear to me that elephant pearls that occur naturally at the base of the elephant's tusk do exist. I would appreciate clarification. I would very much like to see the Indian and Ceylonese findings and laws on this.

Here is my logic: If elephant pearls occur in one out of 8 thousand elephants, (if Zeide isn't outright lying, which she probably is, it would be very hard to collect a Gaji Mani. They are rare and the competition for them would be strong. It would take even a "royal" family with wealth and connections generations to gather 108 of them, let alone matching ones...... I dare say each "pearl" would have its own provenance- especially if it is necessary to say, register them with the Gov't.

If they occur once in several thousand elephants they would be beyond reach in value for any but the most wealthy and connected. Now, with so few elephants around, it must be close to impossible to find new ones.

But there is a market for them. The market as seen in England and America at this time simply does not reflect the rarity of a true elephant pearl. There are too many of them and they are too low priced. Elephant pearls that show human workmanship are the only ones known (so far) in this market.

If a really authentic elephant pearl were to show up on the market-which is rather unlikely, it wouldn't be through an online bezoar/shamanic site. Iit would be sold through the most elite channels- say the upscale autions who insist on such things as Gov't provenance. And that would be rare, very rare I would think because someone would want it before it ever got that far.

Is there even an example of an authentic elephant pearl being sold on the open market? I sincerely doubt it.

So I am sceptical, but willing to be convinced, if convincing evidence is shown.

Someone making a claim is only someone making a claim, unless there is real proof-

Personally I think that is the belief or Intent that does the work, not the item itself- like say, Dumbo's feather, or the candle one may light in a prayer request. In this frame of reference, a faux elephant pearl would be fine for most.

 

[Ashley]

Caitlin, you raise some excellent points! How would something as "valuable" as an honest-to-goodness elephant pearl ever be sold online or on the street?

And, if elephant pearls are real and so coveted, wouldn't elephants be on the seriously endangered species list with all the poachers out there trying to make a buck (not that they aren't already due to the ivory issue)? How come we see pictures of de-tusked elephants but not of the dental mayhem committed on the behalf of the hunt for the pearls?

 

[Slraep]

A thing is very clear, elephant pearls do exist, even if they are really difficult to find out as are controlled by India or Ceylon governments as they are true national treasure.

Ignacio

Sorry, nothing is clear. Elephant pearls have not been shown to exist and are not controlled by Indian or Ceylonese governments. What is controlled is the sale and trade of banned items from animals on the endangered species list, for example, elephant tusk ivory and rhino horn, to mention a few. Government permission is not given lightly in India and I think that if you are caught trading or selling these banned items it is a three year prison term without applicable bail. I've also never heard of the Indian government saying that gaja mani are real and are any kind of national treasure.

Caitlin is right. IF these gaja mani are so rare and priceless, then the probability of owning one would be zero. Owning two??

Reminds me of the infamous red Lop Nur pearls, they are so rare and priceless that only only Z and the Dalai Lama have any. By the way, Caitlin and I happened to find some and they are now for sale.

Slreap

 

[Caitlin]

I'll trade my Lop Nurs for a gajimana.

 

[Ashley]

Whoa wait a minute- you have The Lop Noors???!!! Did they come thru super-secret underground channels from super secret pearl agents and arrive at your doorstep under the cover of the deepest darkness??

...I'm cracking up over here...

 

[Ashley]

Heck I'll trade my ulta-exclusive and very very rare collection of Cloud Pearls(tm) for the gajimana!

This is me starting a bidding war...lol...

 

[Caitlin]

Three of your cloud pearls for one of my red Dragon pearls. I got one of those from a Chinese dealer who specializes in mythical objects. I had a friend pick them up for me, but it was tricky cause the dealer has his shop in Daigon Alley....

Oh I forgot to tell you..... My red Dragon pearl was commissioned by Lao Tsu himself. He figured, "Hey, since I am teaching people to culture in clams, why not in pinctada rufens nobilis? "

At least that scallop has bright red metallic pearlescent luster- a big step up from his first try in a clam.......that one looked like a brain.....

 

[Valeria101]

Gee! this thread starts reminding me of some Middle Age trade of relics Anyone else reading Umberto Eco here?

Joke aside, even some decent account of these pears as religious artifacts would be satisfying at this point. Preferably something academic tracing their tradition, as opposed to the ad-hoc interpretation of Vedic texts by the owner of a curio store. Seriously! Perhaps not every tradition has so much scholarship around as the Indian ones, there must be something, somewhere...

As long as there is clear record about folks paying a small fortune for lucky car numbers, I am ready to believe in the commercial value of snake pearls. Or just about anything else similar. It would be so much nicer to have a meaningful tradition attached to the things though. Unlike those 8888888888888 car numbers. For crying out loud!

 

[Slraep]

Gee! this thread starts reminding me of some Middle Age trade of relics Anyone else reading Umberto Eco here?

What a lively trade in religious relics, eh?? Umberto Eco is a good read! I think I might have a piece of the wooden cross Jesus was crucified on in my basement. It's gonna be expensive.

One wonders just how humongous that wooden cross would have had to have been for all those thousands of pieces of relic sold during the Middle Ages to have been true.

Slraep

 

[Slraep]

Hahah, look what I found. They have bee and crocodile pearls!! Try to top that! Oddly, they don't have elephant pearls---I guess they are just too common.

http://www.bezoarstones.com/

Yes, Ashley, that's EXACTLY how we got the Lop Nurs.

Slraep

 

[Satine De La Courcel]

Three of your cloud pearls for one of my red Dragon pearls. I got one of those from a Chinese dealer who specializes in mythical objects. I had a friend pick them up for me, but it was tricky cause the dealer has his shop in Daigon Alley....

Oh I forgot to tell you..... My red Dragon pearl was commissioned by Lao Tsu himself. He figured, "Hey, since I am teaching people to culture in clams, why not in pinctada rufens nobilis? "

At least that scallop has bright red metallic pearlescent luster- a big step up from his first try in a clam.......that one looked like a brain.....

Sounds like we need a trip to Portbello road (from the Disney Movie Bedknobs and Broomsticks)
Portbello Road, Portobello road Street where the riches of ages are sold. anything and everything a chap can unload ......

Lets go shopping Caitlyn... Even Z cannot top Portobello Road... LOL

Cheers
Ash

 

[Caitlin]

Oddly, they don't have elephant pearls---I guess they are just too common.

http://www.bezoarstones.com/

Yes they do have elephant pearls here

 

[Slraep]

Yes they do have elephant pearls here

Oh darn, I didn't scroll down enough. Somehow Ignacio's waxy elephant pearls look like vegetable ivory compared to these things. Boy, somebody is making a fortune making this stuff.

Slraep

 

[sumavapersians]

elephant pearl forum, to Caitlin Williams

elephant pearl forum, to Caitlin Williams

Hi Caitlin.
I made an error, sorry. My English is not the best as you can see. And misunderstanding some of your words. My apologizes.
OK. When you say:

Here is my logic: If elephant pearls occur in one out of a thousand elephants, it would be very hard to collect a Gaji Mani. They are rare and the competition for them would be strong. It would take even a "royal" family with wealth and connections generations to gather 108 of them, let alone matching ones...... I dare say each "pearl" would have its own provenance- especially if it is necessary to say, register them with the Gov't.

I read all the messages on the forum. I see a few persons believe elephant pearls do exist but the most don't believe.
Thanks for all.
Regards,
Ignacio

(sorry to edit soomeons else's post but I removed zeide's malarkey. It is totally unreferenced. I don't want enyone else accepting it a proof)

 

[Slraep]

Hi Ignacio,

I think that you have misunderstood something about Zeide. She is no longer on this forum because she was banned for telling falsehoods in almost every one of her posts. She also made up things about what she owned and sold things that were false. So if you wish to take her word for gaja muktha, then go ahead. Zeide has never been to Jaipur, nor has she ever seen a gaja mani. She is a common liar.

Even if gaja muktha and whole gaja mani existed, there is NO WAY a common person would have access to them or afford them. And a serious collector would never post pictures, or the fact that he owns something priceless, to a public forum for all to see.

Also, you seem to misunderstand what the Indian government is requiring to be registered. They DO NOT register gaja muktha or whole gaja mani. They require registration for any item which is taken from an endangered species. The government is not interested in the fact that you believe something is gaja muktha or mani.

Who sold the supposed gaja muktha to you? This person has a permit to sell or trade elephant(or other) ivory? Do you have a permit allowing you to buy?

Slraep

 

[Caitlin]

I have thought of another alternative. In the absence of a Royal family member letting an expert look at one of their ancient elephant pearls under a microscope, here is my theory:

Elephants are considered very lucky- especially for business. But they are so rare if there is such a thing, that people use ivory from an elephant to make "elephant" pearls. After all ivory is from an elephant's tusk and has the correct vibration or composition. Maybe the ivory and/or dentine from the inside near the end of the tusk is consided especially auspicious...which is pure speculation.

Some of these ancient hand carved pearls do get handed down because they are "lucky". They may even be handed down with the myth attached as many family heirlooms are.

I think elephant pearls that grow naturally are the stuff of myths, just like the Dragons depicted holding red pearls are.

Back when the myth got started no one could examine such things for marks of workmanship under a microscope.

Now if someone can show me a photo with the pearl in situ, taken by a neutral party, I will eat crow.