Can you see the orient in this?

[jerin]

Jerin, I am trying to detect orient - I always think I know it when I see it, but defining it is a whole different ball game! Do you mean the pearl in the middle of the top row of pearls in the multicoloured strand? And do you mean the pearl at the right close to the bottom of the picture in the white strand?

Thanks!

Nerida

Nerida, I am talking of #7, there it is the sixth pearl in the upper row that shows very fine orient and then I was talking about the big baroque strand that Olga has, there it was a pearl on the extreme right side that very clearly shows the orient, in her strand there are several with orient but not so clear as the one on the right side, though.

Your strand of the dark fireballs is amazing. Very lovely to look at and unusual.

I think one way to see a difference whether it is orient or dye may be the "oily" look, that is not orient. Orient is much more fleeting, rather weak colours compared to the oily ones.

 

[Valeria101]

I think one way to see a difference whether it is orient or dye may be the "oily" look, that is not orient.

And now that I am thinking... as an optical phenomenon, orient tends to follow the surface of the pearl - it looks like a 'fish eye' (concentric circles of colors) on dark round-ish pearls, and follows the waves of nacre in the baroques. These move with light (i.e. with the angle of incidence of light from the main directional source available - sun, lamp nearby. etc.)

Iridescent colors from die oxidation make spots of consistent color that stay put even in diffuse light.

 

[airdancer]

Iridescent colors from die oxidation make spots of consistent color that stay put even in diffuse light.

Fantastic! I like your thinking!

 

[Nerida]

Thankyou everyone for your comments. Wow, this forum is an amazing source of learning and information! Jerin (and others) - the orient lesson has been extremely useful, thankyou!

Another lesson has been to go with instinct - I knew these dark pearls were more than just a little interesting, I am so glad that I am now able to back up my thoughts with some facts! Another question though - is it possible for a dyed pearl to display orient through the dye, or does the dyeing process negate the pearl's natural attributes? I understand and think I am able to discern the difference between orient and the colour patterns and tones produced by the dye, but can they co-exist? Or are the pearls that are used for dyeing poorer quality with little of their own lustre and orient?

This thread is not the place for the discussion, but before joining this forum I thought I could happily live my life without Tahitian pearls, yet alone some of the fabulous multicoloured baroques that I keep seeing on other threads....if only I had truly understood them earlier!

 

[jerin]

Thankyou everyone for your comments. Wow, this forum is an amazing source of learning and information! Jerin (and others) - the orient lesson has been extremely useful, thankyou!

Another lesson has been to go with instinct - I knew these dark pearls were more than just a little interesting, I am so glad that I am now able to back up my thoughts with some facts! Another question though - is it possible for a dyed pearl to display orient through the dye, or does the dyeing process negate the pearl's natural attributes? I understand and think I am able to discern the difference between orient and the colour patterns and tones produced by the dye, but can they co-exist? Or are the pearls that are used for dyeing poorer quality with little of their own lustre and orient?

This thread is not the place for the discussion, but before joining this forum I thought I could happily live my life without Tahitian pearls, yet alone some of the fabulous multicoloured baroques that I keep seeing on other threads....if only I had truly understood them earlier!

You said it yourself, dyed pearls are of poorer quality and that means probably they don?t show orient or at least not much as well as they are probably without much luster.

 

[Nerida]

Jerin - I really did think my CFW dyed blacks were fine before I joined this forum and started looking at the fabulous Tahitians from Josh and others.... I still wear them, but realise now that there is so much better out there! That said, I always thought some of the rice and ringy strands I buy were inferior, but now, looking at them with a whole new outlook, some of them have fantastic orient and lustre!

 

[jerin]

Hi Nerida,

myself being quite conservative when it comes to shape (I like oval, rice, baroque but I LOVE ROUND SHAPES) I must admit that the baroque pearls incl. rice very often have the very best luster and can show quite more orient then even my Freshadamas!

However, something I think is of the greatest importance when choosing pearls is that you try to get natural coloured pearls.

I also have dyed AAA-grade black Freshwater strands but for me personally it is more the joy of having as many different pearltypesvariations as possible.

Thaitians are beautiful in their own way and what is called overtone there would be orient in white pearls. And they have many different natural colours, as seen in Josh?s pics.

 

[Bodecia]

I am pretty sure that the pearls in the multicolored strand are fireballs, bead nucleated freshwater pearls. The metallic colors are usually very beautiful. I saw many wonderful strands of fireballs at the Tucson gem show last week and the prices have gone up drastically.

Sorry if the above did not come across as in a quote but my system or the PFs is not working properly for me.

MY belief is that these dark FW pearls, although beautiful in their own right, are not Fireballs. Real so called Fireball pearls would not be dyed. They would loose all status in doing so. It may very well be that they are from the same mollusk/same treatment but turned out almost white or with virtually no rainbow colours so the ingenous Chinese decided to dye them black to see if they could produce a new market

Pretty they are, Fireballs they are not. I am not entirely sure but I think we need to ask Jeremy about a past thread about the nucleous of this type of pearl. Whether or not they are using illegal mollusks.

Hope I haven't created too much confusion but need expert help here.

Bodecia

 

[Bodecia]

My quote did not come across - so I say again. I am very, very sure that these dark pearls are NOT FIREBALLS. Fireballs cannot be dyed and remain Fireballs.

Bodecia

 

[boo]

I thought the term "fireball" referred to the shape, not the color (baroque with a tail, reminiscent of a shooting star). Why can fireballs not be dyed?

This is from an article Caitlin shared in topic 1225:

As you look closer and longer at these Chinese newcomers, you notice something distinctive about them that makes it easy to distinguish them from their SouthSea counterparts. It's the wing-like protrusions, which have earned these new-breed baroques the name of "fireball pearls" among some Chinese farmers and dealers.

The name makes perfect?albeit provisional?sense because "fireball" pearls usually have meteor-like shapes. Turn back to Tino Hammid's photograph and you'll see pearls with round bellies and trailing wings that could be likened to flames.

Eventually, farmers hope, the wing tips will disappear the way tadpole tails disappear. And then so will the name "fireball." For, voila, then you will have perfect spheres. No wonder dealers like Voll are watching these pearls with keen anticipation.

 

[Nerida]

Thanks again - I wonder if we could get Jeremy's opinion on this? I would love to be able to know exactly what they are. The sphere part of the pearls is VERY spherical - almost like they've swallowed a marble!

On the ethical front - obviously we shouldn't knowingly support the use of illegal mollusks.. Other than that, it is is hard to know where to draw the line. Any thoughts? Even when we support the market for the very highest quality CFWP, we are supporting the production of another 99.9%+ of lesser (and for a great part, rubbish) quality pearl - all at a very significant environmental and humanitarian cost. What do others think?