Buyer and Seller Responsibilities Regarding Shipping

[lisa c]

BTW, I'm NOT saying there was theft. It was a small, padded envelope and could've been under a table or in a dark corner. I am saying USPS put more effort into the search after I mentioned the investigation and reputations to maintain, sympathetically.

 

[lisa c]

'Sympathetic' was hard to do, because I was hopping mad at being disrespected. I wanted to threaten somebody with a big, burly mobster, but I didn't have one.

 

[enbcfsobe]

so sorry you are going through this!! I had a similar experience with an etsy seller (not pearls) around Christmastime 2 years ago. In that case the package was marked "out for delivery" but there was no actual attempt to deliver -- no notice left, and we were home all day on that day and no one came to the door. The best the seller would do was to offer a replacement at cost (about 50% off), and the time of year made it worse -- extreme volume for both sellers and carriers makes it harder to get someone to pay attention to your inquiries. I was treated similarly to lisa c, and got the run around from usps and finally gave up. I will not ship USPS during the holidays if I can help it, and I am more wary of making large purchases from small businesses, which is a shame. I hope somehow this is made right for you!

 

[ckrickett]

I can say something as an Etsy seller (that is where most of my business comes from, although it is not pearls) During Christmas time USPS is notoriously bad about getting packages on time. we had an entire shipment of packages (about 6k worth of merchandise) literally disappear 2 years ago. it cost me THOUSANDS to remake and reship all the merchandise because of USPS error, and I got nothing back from them. Now even 2 years later I will get a packaged returned to me from that batch. This year packages that were supposed to ship 2-3 day where taking a week at least. It is a hassle, and there isn't much I can do but CONSTANTLY phone USPS and beg them to get off their asses. UGH!

Maybe the package is lost, maybe an employee took it. I do hope you get it resolved

 

[lisa c]

BTW, I'm not pointing the finger at NYC exclusively. We had our own USPS scandal in Pittsburgh, PA years ago. I know my local USPS station and delivery people by sight, one guy I've known for 20yrs, and had great service. Some rotten apples or careless folks, or overworked, have tarnished the bunch. It's a shame.

Look at the packages still coming back to ckrickett- that speaks to the honest, diligent USPS workers. After all this time, they could've been dumped in the Atlantic instead of delivered. It's a shame. I don't understand why they haven't made good for you, ck.

 

[ckrickett]

I don't either, my postal branch is incredible but I live in the tippy end of Florida and all packages going and coming go through one sorting facility, and if that gets backed up there is nothing we can do. Thing is when I created the package it shows a tracking number but not that it was scanned. So I am thinking USPS thinks I just made labels to file claims. Whatever, it is what is it. It was right before Christmas too, so I had to remake and ship out hundreds of new orders so they would reach their destination on time, some orders I had to fork over for overnight delivery, and it got expensive!

 

[lisa c]

Ok, I'm no good with links but I checked for your closest USPS sorting facility - and it's in Nashua! I think that means it's a high volume facility.

I also did a little reading and asked some questions of local USPS employees. When something is out for delivery and isn't delivered, in Pittsburgh, instead of going to my nearby office to wait for me (1mile from me)
it goes immediately to a bigger sorting facility (about 5 miles from me).
Then it's scanned again (could take a number of days after going through the facility doors)
then it's placed in my zip-code-whatever (bin?)
then put on a truck, driven to my po storefront
and scanned again.

if I wanted to pick it up from 5mi away it would take just as long because of the required procedure to halt it there and notify me, via the little post-it note on the front door. etc...

There are holiday volumes to factor in, number of employees doing the scanning and etc, weather, illness, has your facility cut back on hours for employees lately (around here, some facilities work around the clock, some don't).

So, don't give up yet!

And, if you type in "what is the nearest USPS sorting facility to Nashua, NH" and follow links around to The Black Hole of Richmond, CA, you'll find some interesting stories about the USPS sorting facility there, and container shipping to Hawaii, Guam, etc..

I wish I'd known this stuff before I offered to send a Big Scary Guy to help sort the packages in NYC...
Not really -

Anyway, I also can understand why an employee might not want to go into such a detailed explanation over the phone, too. They should try to explain for PR reasons, but I can see why they don't.

 

[lisa c]

ck, my deepest sympathies - I can't even imagine how stressful that was. I hope you rested really hard after that event, and got lots of back rubs and had a good pillow to scream into.

 

[kelluvpearls]

I don't either, my postal branch is incredible but I live in the tippy end of Florida and all packages going and coming go through one sorting facility, and if that gets backed up there is nothing we can do. Thing is when I created the package it shows a tracking number but not that it was scanned. So I am thinking USPS thinks I just made labels to file claims. Whatever, it is what is it. It was right before Christmas too, so I had to remake and ship out hundreds of new orders so they would reach their destination on time, some orders I had to fork over for overnight delivery, and it got expensive!

Well done Ckrickett, I wish more sellers have your business ethics and common sense.

Just interested in how running a store works, do sellers usually have insurance that cover lost or damage?

Khanzy do you know if Jacques contacted USPS on your behalf? I believe it's usually the sender that files the missing package report (eg Ckrickett did above), someone please correct me if this is incorrect.

 

[lisa c]

OK. Please ignore my recommendation to wave the Corruption Stick at anybody, a joke is a joke, for this time and place.

I was very much in empathy with the GOOD employees of USPS, when I waved it the first time, over the phone :-D.

And nobody's giving me grief right now, just being my mild-mannered-self making sure everybody is cool.

 

[khanzy]

There are two issues here, right?
A package shipped under-insured ( the seller's mistake )
USPS saying they attempted delivery.

I don't know how that'd play in NH. Has Jac actually gotten on the phone with USPS to your knowlege?

Lisa,

The issue I'm seeing is from the perspective that no matter what the cause of the lost package on USPS's part- whether there was "foul play" or an honest error, these things do happen and as such that package should have been insured, and Jac should have refunded me first, and then pursued the claim with USPS.

Instead he has had no involvement with me, USPS, or PayPal that I know of other than to express that as soon as the package was dropped off at the carrier, it was out of his hands and none of his business whether the package was recovered or reparations made to me by USPS. He took what I paid him and dropped out.

And ckrickett's experiences outline the inadequacies of USPS services especially when it comes to the holidays- but also show that she as the seller has been the one that unfortunately has stomached the costs and put in miles of effort to do right by the buyer- this is a lot more honorable than what I've experienced!

 

[khanzy]

Lisa, thank you for doing the sleuthing for me! I guess I hold a little bit too much faith in systems that have scanning in place to track packages- the last scan for mine was the "notice left" scan so it seemed like whatever happened to that little package happened on the journey back to the truck/local office. I would have a hard time believing it would be rerouted anywhere else without getting additional scans. But that would be operating under the assumption that the scans were true.

I work in a completely different field but we also depend heavily on scanning in order to keep track of specimens (both physically and in terms of the data we are entering on them) and our electronic records make it so that everyone that even accesses the specimen to look it up gets logged in the electronic health record. Understandable that there are different standards when it comes to healthcare but it is still really hard for me to get out of viewing things through that lens and relying on the dependability of the system and diligence of its employees.

I do recall the USPS local office supervisor mentioning something along the lines of it being a sorting facility that takes in packages from all other places!

Ok, I'm no good with links but I checked for your closest USPS sorting facility - and it's in Nashua! I think that means it's a high volume facility.

 

[khanzy]

Well done Ckrickett, I wish more sellers have your business ethics and common sense.

Just interested in how running a store works, do sellers usually have insurance that cover lost or damage?

Khanzy do you know if Jacques contacted USPS on your behalf? I believe it's usually the sender that files the missing package report (eg Ckrickett did above), someone please correct me if this is incorrect.

Kelluvpearls, I have been the only one to communicate with USPS about locating my package. The shipping was priority with no additional insurance so the claim would be $50 at most. Speaking with USPS officials they have consistently asked me about having the seller contact them and work with them so I would think he has done nothing of the sort. The only action I know of is that he provided PayPal with the tracking information to during investigation to "win" his case. Nothing more. He is looking out for himself and not his buyer in this case, but it is extremely short sighted.

The USPS claims process I believe can be initiated by the addressee but requires information and documentation only the sender can provide. So without cooperation on the part of the sender I doubt it would be a worthwhile cause, especially given the amount of the return.

 

[lisa c]

Oh, I know what you mean, Khanzy. You expect your tools and systems to work, or you repair or replace them. Much as I joked about it, I really did want to knock heads together when my package just disappeared electronically for weeks, and my calls hit indifference about half the time. I was so grateful when someone took the time to explain the systematic shuffling to me, I almost blubbered.

I don't know the logic behind the transportation choices, but I think it's at least a little bit about not wanting to ship 'containers' with empty space. For instance, I've received packages from the same place in New England. Sometimes the package would go North to Boston, then be sent South to Pittsburgh. Other times it came straight SouthWest to me.

What I'm picking up informally is that scanning is good for accountability, but it takes time to scan. 'Streamlining' the PostOffice with various and sundry measures has put it back in black $$$-wise, but there have been negative outcomes as well as positive. Things are still 'settling', whether the media picks it up or not.


***procedurally, the seller should initiate the search with USPS***as kelluv said.
My experience was that the seller HAD to initiate, because the package tracking was out of a foreign country.

 

[lisa c]

Jac's is a fairly new business, right? It could well be inexperience, rather than callousness that's led to this rough place. Let's see what happens after he initiates the search.

Also (wince) I think when the Post Office says 30 days before they'll declare a package lost - that might mean business days.

But! It didn't take long for my package to be located once the search was initiated, and then it arrived at my doorstep zippy-quick.

 

[Tucs]

I just read about all this now, I am so sorry khanzy to hear of this. Last Fall my package tracking information showed a package of mine that went missing for a few days as "delivered", so for three days I was going crazy trying to figure out what had happened to the package. They did tell me that the seller is responsible for opening an investigation. I was lucky because my package showed up the week after -- the post man (who was super nice and even let me look inside his truck before LOL) had no idea about what had happened. So maybe you will still get yours!

 

[Katbran]

I can say something as an Etsy seller (that is where most of my business comes from, although it is not pearls) During Christmas time USPS is notoriously bad about getting packages on time. we had an entire shipment of packages (about 6k worth of merchandise) literally disappear 2 years ago. it cost me THOUSANDS to remake and reship all the merchandise because of USPS error, and I got nothing back from them. Now even 2 years later I will get a packaged returned to me from that batch. This year packages that were supposed to ship 2-3 day where taking a week at least. It is a hassle, and there isn't much I can do but CONSTANTLY phone USPS and beg them to get off their asses. UGH!

Maybe the package is lost, maybe an employee took it. I do hope you get it resolved

edit- I have bought a few times from Jac and had no issues. I'm surprised that he didn't insure the package. I will certainly remember to do that on my next order.

Ckrickett-Oh dear what a terrible thing. I didn't know you had an Etsy Store ! What's the name? You should add it to your information so the link shows up. We can all go shopping ! lol I can't believe that one by one they are finding their way back home...how bizarre.

I know that there is a good chance that the package will show up eventually .. at least you know it's in the area and it made it to your door once. Lisa - great job researching the postal system !! Sounds like that package is probably wandering around.

 

[pattye]

Just some thoughts~

Within the Etsy forums, over 8000 inquiries are about USPS, carriers, lost packages and how to file a claim. Carriers have a waiting period before a claim can be filed, reasonable, as a packages often turn up. A seller settling with the buyer before the waiting period expires may result in the buyer losing interest and not filing their affidavit that the package didn't arrive or item was broken. The seller then can't recover the insured amount. I would certainly prefer to replace a missing item rather than refund. Fortunately I've only had 1 item to replace since 2008, though some packages have gone far astray on their way to the destination.

A Priority label, printed through Etsy, carries an automatic $100 insurance with free delivery confirmation. Signature is an additional charge. First class packages, up to 16 oz. are insured up to $50. Additional insurance is easily purchased.

On the USPS website one can also request email tracking updates, which is something I often request on the more valuable packages.

Jac has been on Etsy for less than a year with many sales plus very positive feedback, including from many members here, in addition to being knowledgeable about the pearls he sells. And yes, it appears Jac could have expressed his concern about the package loss and offered to look into it from his end. I'd hope he would offer to replace the pearls with some of like value at minimum. If Jac has business partners a refund may not be his decision alone to make.

Khanzy, it sounds like you did promptly file a formal complaint to escalate the search, were assigned a case number, with the postmaster or manager involved who would then interview (and check the scanner of) the person making deliveries that day.

Most packages do show up eventually; I hope this one will also.

 

[khanzy]

Pattye, thank you. This was an arrangement that was initiated through Etsy but the final purchase was made wholesale as Jac put it; since his Etsy policy does not accept returns and this was a case where I was to buy a lot of pearls to select the ones I wanted (bought undrilled, to be sent back for drilling and the rest returned). He emailed me an invoice and I sent the money through PayPal to his email as a purchase transaction. So I don't know what kind of shipping it was other than what I can glean from my tracking number, which is Priority.

He has not offered to replace the pearls. When I first brought the package status to his attention his response was "I let my customers pay for additional insurance if they wish and specify that they would like to, but no one usually wants to. Everyone seems comfortable with the risk." Unfortunately I was neither aware or informed of the option to add insurance to the shipment.

Whenever I make online purchases I am constantly updating my browser for the tracking page so I keep tabs on what stage my packages are at that way. I rarely make purchases without requesting a tracking number. And yes, USPS is investigating this as well.

 

[pearlescence]

We sellers get the insurance for our peace of mind and to save us a fortune in having to replace or refund. This seller needs a dose of commercial reality. Sue. However much he ignores you or brushes you off, he's liable.