Another plea to explain water and orient

[Slraep]

What I can't make sense of is why something as magical and unique to pearls as that would have a crap name like overtone and not a beautiful one like orient? To me the two pearls below are examples of good (left) and not so good (right) orient.

Good example of a Tahitian pearl with peacock overtones and another without. An overtone radiates from the inner layer of a pearl. Orient is uniquely an iridescent SURFACE phenomenon that moves as you move the object. Orient contains all the colours of a rainbow(prismatic effect), while overtones are single colours although a Tahitian pearl can have more than one. For instance different variations of green(on top of green body colour even) , pink and gold at the same time. That's why we say "peacock overtones" and not "peacock orient". Some people say they can see orient in some select Tahitians, on top of overtones. That is very possible because as individuals, we have variations in how we see things. Anyone belonging to an astronomy club can tell you that not everyone can see things in the sky that others do and some people can see certain magnitudes of stars that others can't. That's very interesting, I think.

Orient is NOT unique to pearls by the way. You can find many, many examples of it in nature(look around,dude). Some of the forum members had a great thread going with gorgeous examples of iridescence(orient) other than pearls, a little while ago.

A dictionary does not make distinctions like "crap" words or "beautiful" words. Orient and overtones have distinct meanings.

Slraep

 

[Slraep]

The Cortez pearls look like little sacs of liquid pearl that has different colurs within the liquid.

Hi Sueki,

Cortez pearls are very interesting, aren't they? Whenever I wear mine, people tell me they look like balls of molten silver with colour flashes. They are the pearls I get complemented on the most. You are lucky to own some because they are truly rare. In the proper dictionary sense of the word.

I wish Douglas wasn't off farming and could tell us in more detail about what we see in Cortez pearls. Hmmm....perhaps I'll pester him. In Cortez pearls, in contrast to Tahitian pearls, you can see overtones AND orient, much more frequently. Lots of people do not see orient on Tahitians. Orient seems to materialize best on pearls that are not perfect spheres and have very thick nacre. Best orient I have seen was on a baroque freshwater(how's that for thick nacre, eh?). That pearl was one awesome piece of diffraction!

Slraep

 

[Sueki]

Hello Josh, Thanks for the info. and the pics.
Lovely pearls, both of them.
I am continually fascinated by this and by the differing effects from different pearls.
And differing effects from the same kinds of pearls, too.
For example, I have some beautiful grey Tahitians which have very delicate, subtle pinks and greens emanating.
And then dark Tahitians with strong colours that look totally different to the grey pearls.
I just feel sorry for my poor husband who is colour blind......
He only sees the rainbows through a magnifier and threat of a soccer ban on our t.v.

 

[Sueki]

Hello Slraep,
Yes, Cortez pearls are really something. I have some that have been waiting to be strung for ages.
I haven't done so yet because I can't stop just staring at them.
Finally I finished a bracelet this afternoon. And they are the only pearls that said husband has seen the flashes of colours without prompting.....

 

[Pearl Dreams]

I just came across this information about "water" or transparency in pearls in an article by Richard W. Wise (the article discusses transparency in gems generally):

"Historically crystal has also played a part in the discrimination of the finest pearls. Prior to the introduction of cultured pearls which are seeded with an opaque sphere ground from the shell of a freshwater mollusk, transparency or at least translucency was very much a characteristic valued in the finest pearls. In his Travels to India, Tavernier describes the world’s paramount pearl (circa 1670), a gem at that time in possession of a minor prince of Muscat. “This prince possesses the most beautiful pearl in the world, not by reason of its size for it only weighs 12 1/16 carats nor on account of its perfect roundness; but because it is so clear that you can almost see the light through it”6. Tavernier also repeatedly uses the term water to describe the quality of pearls."

6_Tavernier, J.B. Travels in India Vol II, 1676 edition, Ball, V., trans., Oriental Books Reprint Corporation, New Delhi, 1976 p.86

http://www.secretsofthegemtrade.com/articles_4_2.htm
(Note that this is only page 2 of the article; click the 'back' arrow at the bottom of the page to read the whole article.)

 

[knotty panda]

So my question is, can you see water in dark pearls, like a Tahitian? Wow, a natural Tahitian with water. I guess I should be asking, who can afford such a pearl?

Another question. Does water exhibit a color? Does it pick-up the overtone?

 

[jeanpn]

Please opine on this:

I, too, have tried, with minor success to understand what everyone is talking about regarding overtones, orient and water and the like. It hasn't helped me that people selling the pearls seem to have different opinions on the subject. Anyway, the dark pearl in these pictures appears to me to have orient, which I think the last photo captures. It is a dark gray pearl, but it flashes pink and green in the light. Would you agree that this is orient?

 

[Caitlin]

I think the colors in that pearl are overtones. Tahitians can have simple or more complex overtones. The light does not break like it does for iridescence (aka "orient")

I found a picture with good iridescence The pattern of light relecting in orient is all jumbled up, not in bands or circles. At least that is how I understand it.

Freshwater and akoya can also have overtones -ie white with rose or silver overtones are standard aand commonly found.

 

[pattye]

Hi Caitlin,

That's a great example! Do you have the photo handy of Dr. Tom's pearl with water? Having it here with the previous photo might be helpful. I still get confused sometimes too. Can't remember which thread it is in---Thanks again!

Pattye
so many pearls, so little time

 

[jeanpn]

I think the colors in that pearl are overtones. Tahitians can have simple or more complex overtones. The light does not break like it does for iridescence (aka "orient")

I found a picture with good iridescence The pattern of light relecting in orient is all jumbled up, not in bands or circles. At least that is how I understand it.

Freshwater and akoya can also have overtones -ie white with rose or silver overtones are standard aand commonly found.

Just when I thought I had it.

 

[Caitlin]

Here is a picture that shows the translucent part of the pearl. You can almost see through it. It is not too pretty in this pearl because it is so baroque. It is the rounds ones with water that are so gorgeous.... This one shows how it looks like horn, but it is cold like a mineral.

 

[Caitlin]

I regret not staying longer to get more photos. It was rather overwhelming. Dang I wish Blaire had been there!

I am looking for a photo that shows water better. When you move the pearl the iridescence jumps in and out depending on where the light is. When I capture the sheets of iridescence, it kind of blocks the translucency. When I don't, it looks way too organic.

I saw one that I loved...it was top shaped, pointed on the top, round beneath. It had water around the transition between the top and bottom at the edges. I want it so bad, but it is part of a lot that all got certified together, so will get sold together. <sad>

Here is one that shows the red background through the pearl.

 

[pattye]

Hi Caitlin,

That's a good one! I think it is difficult because of the red background--here is another of Dr. Tom's. You took the photo---


The water especially shows at the bottom or the lower side of the lower pearl--the translucent area---don't you think?


Pattye
so many pearls, so little time

 

[GemGeek]

I didn't see Dr Tom's pearls in person, but this pearl's water and orient are very clear in the photo. And unbelievable in person!

You could literally see into the pearl.

 

[pattye]

Wow! Blaire,

Is that one yours??? Perfect example, too!

Pattye
so many pearls, so little time

 

[GemGeek]

Wow! Blaire,

Is that one yours??? Perfect example, too!

Pattye
so many pearls, so little time

LOL! The Paspley Police kept a very close eye on me!!!

 

[Caitlin]

too bad Octavia wasn't there to eat it.......

 

[jerin]

Just when I thought I had it.

Hi Jean,

I think the orient is called overtone in Tahitian pearls but in my opinion you could call it orient as well, because it is the rainbow like colouration above the bodycolour that is meant.

I don?t think it would be easy to see "water" in a dark Tahitian but on the white South Sea pearl that Blaire posted, I think, you can see the rainbowcolours of the orient and the "depth" into the pearl that I believe is what we call "water" and it looks like layers of transparent veils (I am a most practical person, so for me to get so poetic is quite something).

 

[Valeria101]

Take a look here:

http://pearl-guide.com/forum/showthread.php?p=30563#post30563

the example was too funny to make it any less then a new thread!

 

[Raisondetre]

I find that water shows up best especially when you look at a pearl's reflection in the mirror. I think the refractive error or doubling the viewing distance makes it more obvious. For high grade pearls it should show up without, but that's just my observation, no scientific evidence to back it up.