Akoya lovers ... your thoughts?

[jshepherd]

One last thing. I want to hear where those pearls came from......

I don't think it's necessary to name names at this point. This thread is going to retire shortly anyway.

 

[est190]

Well, we've had posters with issues with Hanadama pearls, I believe.

- Karin

I believe I am one of them, but I don't recall questioning the quality or value of any specific pearls (Hanadama or otherwise)--my issue is with the certification process itself and what the certification is intended to signify. This has been addressed and debated elsewhere, so no need to get into it again. I do think it's fair to say the best way to judge quality for the buyer to compare the strand she purchased (or he) from Seller A against the equivalent grade from Seller B (either by ordering a strand or going to a store, Mikimoto, Tiffany etc.) and see how they both match up.

If JPSL's standards or consistency in grading isn't up to snuff, it not the end of the world for the people that bought Hanadama strands nor do I believe it would change the value of those strands at all. Pearls are generally sold without reports and I am not aware of any major (or minor for that matter) B&M stores that sell pearls with reports (GIA, EGL, JPSL or otherwise). People who need that proof of quality and need to buy their pearls in person are going to Tiffany or Mikimoto and they will pay top dollar for the confidence of owning a branded product.

Selling online is different because the customer is not able to touch or see the product and pictures just don't cut it for many people. Third party reports are a good way to build that confidence, provided the companies can be trusted. As far as I know, having any "certification" whether it's from GIA, EGL, JPSL or any other company doesn't have that much impact on the actual value of the pearls at all. It's not the value enhancer for pearls that it is for diamonds. If someone buys any strand regardless of the paperwork that comes with it and they have any doubt about the quality they should buy another strand of equivalent promised quality from a different seller/competitor to compare or bring the strand down to Tiffany or Mikimoto (if this remotely convenient) and compare for themselves against the branded strands. Finally, they can have it appraised by a a professional of their own choosing.

In any case, EGL and GIA also offer reports (not certifications), which I prefer on principle because they don't certify or promise a minimum level of quality but just give a third party assessment of the strand without a label proclaiming it the "best". Any "Certification" of quality (a stamp of approval) has the potential to lump strands of differing qualities into one indistinguishable category. For example, if Seller A is submitting a true top quality AAA strands and Seller B is submitting A+ or AA quality strands and both are strands are getting the grading company's stamp of approval that actually devalues Seller A's strands because if all a customer is looking for is the Certification as proof of quality, many will assume they are of the same quality when in fact they are not. The certification is only valuable if the standard for achieving it is very high and is consistently applied.

I don't think it's necessary to name names at this point. This thread is going to retire shortly anyway.

Good idea on both accounts. All we know for the moment is that one strand is superior to the other and both have a certification. We don't know how this came to be and it's too soon to lay blame on an party without knowing much more. Even when there is an answer, as much fun as it may be to discuss, PG may not be the best venue for addressing the issue.

 

[jshepherd]

One of the largest jewelry chains in Canada (Birks) sells hanadama graded pearls. Most jewelry stores in Japan sell hanadama grade pearls. Nearly every wholesaler out of New York sells hanadama graded pearls at a premium. These are then resold all over the United States.
http://www.birks.com/en/888191

Selling sub par product as hanadama while claiming to be the industry quality and price leader in hanadama raises ethical questions. Believing every word one person tells you when you lack sufficient corroborating evidence is not wise.

 

[mikehrz]

I speak from experience here. I was one of those consumers I was talking about. I was fortunate enough to find PG before buying anything. Most buyers aren't. What we have here is a strand of pearls which was either misrepresented by the retailer or incorrectly certified. Either way, there's a problem. The certification process is no doubt imperfect, but any consumer ought to be able to buy a strand which is identified as hanadama by the retailer with the confidence that it can measure up to other hanadama pieces.

 

[jshepherd]

Seven years ago! It's always good to see you back!

 

[Caitlin]

Another classic poster. from the "class" of 2005.

What is JPSL? Is that the one with the red tag that means nothing except the pearls were in Japan at one point?

My understanding of the hanadama lab is that they reject anything but the top few of the AAA quality, so a stand of lesser quality could NOT get the certification. If it could, the certification means nothing. For newbies, each grading category occurs on a spectrum, which runs from A, through AA to AAA. The best of the AAA continuum can certify as hanadama and the other grades, including much of the AAA grade doesn't make the cut.

I will retire this thread as soon as Jeremy gives the word, and we will just have to wait to see what is really going on here.

Do I detect defensiveness from someone who has no stake in the outcome?

 

[jshepherd]

Word ... !

 

[Caitlin]

word. .....

 

[Tucs]

For those of us reading this thread now, is it possible to find out what happened in Japan??

 

[jshepherd]

Sure. I showed everything to our hanadama supplier while we were in Japan and he told me the lab would only verify the authenticity of a certificate but would not comment on the pearls unless we were trying to get them certified. I contacted them myself and explained the situation and was more or less told them would not comment or get involved.

I've since dealt with another situation from a different vendor who was selling hanadama with forged certificates and basically got the same response.

One quick tip when buying hanadama pearls. Always count the pearls. If the number of pearls in the photo are different from the number of pearls in the strand and you didn't ask for it to be lengthened or shortened, it's almost certain that it's not the strand that was certified.

 

[amti]

Wow, such an interesting thread and as always, great advice! It sounds to me like a coverup, so common in Japan.

 

[jshepherd]

It's very common in the culture to not want to get involved with things, especially uncomfortable things.

I found out about the forged certificates in February when one of our suppliers stopped by our office on the way back to Japan from Tucson. I had purchased a strand of hanadama (well, Mia's husband actually purchased it) from a vendor because of a situation that had come up.

The cert was so good I didn't know it was forged. I showed our supplier the pearls and the certificate because I wanted to know how they had passed certification. He immediately recognized that the pearls didn't match the photo (I could see that too after he pointed it out) and then counted them. They were two pearls off. Then he realized there was something missing from the certificate and that one edge wasn't cut clean. He was shocked and said it was a forgery but if I were to do anything about it I could not mention his name or his company name. He would not get involved in any way.

 

[amti]

It is a shame that there are dishonest sellers everywhere and we, as consumers, have to learn so much about products to protect ourselves. Even so, I don't know how many times I learned later that something was not as it was presented. I just have to keep reminding myself that karma is going to bite them back. And I'm grateful for honest sellers, like you.

 

[Caitlin]

I was going to ask if at least one was a hanadama and one not, but I arrived too late to to get here before the answer. Shocked that they both are. Something is wrong with that! I am SO glad you are following this to the supposed source of the certificate!

Edited to add: Surprised to see all my previous comments. I had forgotten totally about this thread when I made the comments above.

 

[Purranha]

Wow what an interesting & educational thread! Haha didn't squeeze in any guesses but glad to be able to scan through it before the string gets retired!

 

[aradhnasingh]

I think color combination is different.