Which Thread?

[cindyclark]

I recently converted over to silk from using beading wire for my necklaces. They hang so much nicer on the silk and I have had problems with the crimps not holding. Now I have a new problem. I must use #2 in thickness with my keishis as the holes are so small, but when I add larger stones the thread is breaking. The faceted stones are literally cutting through the thread within about 4 hours of wear.
I don't want to go back to wire or flexiwire. Any ideas? Are the non-silk threads strong enough to hold up to the faceted stones?

Cindy Clark

 

[Caitlin]

Hi Cindy

This is exactly the kind of problem Power Pro thread is useful for. It is made out of Spectra and does not get cut nor does it stretch. Power Pro is available at Hye on Beads, an Ebay store and at Artbeads.com who does not charge postage.

I first used it because the silk stretched with some very large pearls in a 32"necklace.

I have recently used it to knot at least a dozen strands including a couple of ropes.

Its original use was as fishing line, but the much larger and less expensive spools of PowerPro fishing line, as it is called, do not come in Black or white, but in moss green and orange.

It drapes as well as silk. The only problen it it is rough on the hands after a couple of hundred knots. My sis-in-law actually got her hangnail caught in it and it made it worse.

Nevertheless, this is my very favorite for most of my pearls.

It comes in 10lb test which is teeny and strong. and 20 lb test which goes through most pearls, and 30lb test which is great for big pearls. If you use a thread too small, the knots will not keep the pearls in place- they will slide around.

 

[cindyclark]

Thanks Caitlin. Does it come very thin, like #2?

 

[Caitlin]

I edited the above post with that info

PS this stuff must be cut with kids fiskars or power pro scissors. It won't cut with most scissors and it will quickly dull them, if you can get it to cut with out shredding.

The complete kit for knotting this way is
1 20 lb test in black and 1 in white @ $6.50- 6.99 each
1 30 lb test in black and 1 in white--same price
Some twisted wire beading needles very thin. I forget the price.
Powerpro/or Fiskars kid scissors. $2.99-4.99
a Zapit or thread zap or somwething like that for melting thead. You can do it microscopically with this thingy for about $22.00
2 replacement tips. 12.50

Suzanne Hye of Hye on Beads and a protege of Henrietta, the most famed knotster and first to give up the secrets of a good knot, has it all, Artbeads was out of some sizes and may not have the zapper.

Total investment for all of above $60-70 or so, though you can begin with just one size of thread for less than $10 mailed, and wreck some cutters or clippers.

 

[Caitlin]

One more thing. This method uses the double thread technique, which is the absolute best one and the quickest and never tightens the knot anywhere but snuggled next to the bead. Go to Jeremy's youtube videos for one version or go here for the version I much prefer, because you can see the technique better.

Go to this address and scroll to the very bottom of the page and download the video. Then set it on repeat and sit there with some pearls on a thread and follow the process, if you have only used one thread techniques before. (This comment not neccesarily for you, Cindy, but for readers that follow.
http://www.lots-of-pearls.com/winkel/index.cgi?page=04-Zelf_parels_knopen.htm

 

[cindyclark]

Thanks Caitlin. I have been surfing all afternoon with your advise. Hye on Beads is temporarily closed and Artbeads was not listing Danyline. My problem is the holes are so tiny on the keishis I can't get any needle type through them. I must use a built in needle. There is a Griffon High Performance number 2 with a built in needle. I am going try that and some special cutters, as it is very stong. Wow is it hard to find. Finally found it on Craftland. Hopefully this will work. Perhaps there is some needle out there small enough for the keishis, but I have not found it.

 

[Caitlin]

HI Cindy
The kind of needles I am talking about come in very thin sizes.

Artbeads was not listing Danyline.

I spelled Dandyline wrong, so I went back and changed it to Power Pro.
Power Pro thread: Sorry I was not more clear. Here it is at artbeads:
http://www.artbeads.com/stringing-materials-bead-forever.html

beading needles- fine
http://www.artbeads.com/need-01.html

Measurements: Length 3.75 inches, 30 gauge
Color: Silver
Material: Stainless Steel
Place of Origin: Germany

These fine-gauge stainless steel, twisted wire beading needles come in packs of 25.

Remember, when you buy your beads and bead supplies from Artbeads.com, FREE SHIPPING is available in the USA with no minimum purchase requirement.

I have beaded with size 18 beads so I know what needles fit through small holes.
Size 18 means 18 beads to one inch or 1.3mm beads. I like the twisted wire ones, but regular size 18 needles will got through such tiny beads also.

I also strongly encourage people to use the 2 thread method. I have NEVER had a knot tighten down in the wrong place with the 2 thread method. You will not need an awl or tweezers EVER again.

If you need to make a needle out of silk thread, gum arabic is ued to stiffen the end of the silk. I do not know how it would work with Power pro. However Power pro is doubled so you need a needle, anyway.

I forgot to say, it hardly tangles at all and when it does, it is easy to untangle. This is the only reason you might need an awl- to loosen up a tangle.

 

[cindyclark]

Thanks Caitlin for the links to Artbeads. I have gone ahead and ordered the thread and needles. If this works it will be a lot cheaper than using the carded strings and less tangling from working with those long lengths. I will also try the doubling of the thread, it will all depend on if the holes are large enough.

I will let you know. By the way, Artbeads looks like a great source.

Cindy

 

[Caitlin]

Here is a link to Dandyline thread in both black and white. and different sizes. The smallest size, .004" in diameter may not be small enough for very fine beadwork

 

[knotty panda]

Cindy: I haven't found that Griffin High Performance knots particularly well. Firemountain has exceptionally fine needles, the size of a hair which may work for you. You can try a larkshead knot to keep the thread on the needle if you determine you don't want to double the thread, but yes, gemstones will shread most stringing materials.

 

[Caitlin]

I just found this site for Dandyline thread. It has a discount, but you have to order 3 spools. Also comes in all sizes and in black and white.

This deal is not for beginners. You must be sure you love this stuff (which I do)

This thread is good when silk doesn't perform properly, such as

When your klonks stretch out silk in a short time (even with pre-stretching)

Whe you are using gemstones or bugle beads that cut other threads, including silk.

 

[Caitlin]

Cindy
Since you are working with gemstones that cut, try reaming them out with a bead reamer. A bead reamer will smooth out the sharp edges on gemstones like garnets fairly easily.


Start with an inexpensive one (under $10) and follow the directions. If you like it, you can move up to better quality. The cheap ones wear out faster.


I would get impatient if I had to ream the entire diameter of keshis so I'd be looking for a friend with a dremel.

 

[cindyclark]

Hi Caitlin,
If you can believe it, I bought the Power Pro thread and needles and redid the necklace, sent it to my customer, and she called me telling me it had broken again, this time during transit. I nearly cried. I picked it up and took a closer look at the large amethyst stones with a loop and discover one to be very sharp, like a knife. I removed the sharp stone and ended up redoing the necklace with Softflex and two micro crimps on both ends. I was too worried to try the Power Pro again with huge those amethysts and such a heavy necklace.
I am using Power Pro on my keishis, as they cut the silk occasionally too. I also bought some thicker Power Pro to try, as I do like it. A reamer is next and I will have to take a closer look at all my large stones as I put necklaces together.
I am just chalking this up to a learning experience. Thanks for your help.
Cindy

 

[Caitlin]

Whoops.

Well, to use those big amethysts, it is apparent you must ream the sharp edges, and that's a drag. I don't use stones with sharp edges without reaming them. The faceted garnets used to be the worst for cutting through the threads I used to use, way back when, like monofiliment and nylon. I lost a lot of garnets that way, until I learned to ream or sand the edges down a liitle.


I can't think of anything else except 49 strand soft flex; you didn't specify what size you used. Did you try it? It will cut too, if you have any more really sharp edges. I used to use wire with my heaviest beads, but so far the Power Pro has out performed the wire, and it has a much better drape.

Just a thought, I don't know if it would work, but everything that cuts the power pro gets dull, so maybe using a piece of power pro a couple of feet long and running it through the bead and rubbing it like dental floss back and forth against the sharp edge would dull it. I don't know how long it would take, though. It may be a dumb idea.

No one has ever discussed reaming techniques around here. It may be time to do so, but not me, not right now. Maybe someone else will. Reaming out pearls is quite easy, amethyst would be more difficult than a pearl to hand sand the sharp edge with a reamer. You'd need to run it under water, but a sharp edge shouldn't be too hard to do by hand.

Good luck and I hope your experience doesn't scare anyone alse away from Power Pro like it did you. It isn't a problem with the thread, it's a problem with the amethyst.

 

[Caitlin]

Cindy
Did you knot the Power Pro? It sounds like you might not have. (no pun intended) Knots would keep the sharp edges from moving around and if it does cut, only the one stone would come off. If the holes are big enough to double back, it is an easy repair job.

 

[knotty panda]

It isn't a problem with the thread, it's a problem with the amethyst.

I disagree. I think it's a problem with the design. I've been steering clear of this thread because I felt my opinion would offend Cindy and I didn't want to do that.

If you're set on that design, use different amethysts that will accommodate the thread. Save the amethyst you're using for a wire-wrapping project.

You said you used micro-crimps when you returned it to your customer. Don't be surprised to get it back again. If the beads are that heavy, micro-crimps won't hold it and you said you were having problems with crimps at the start of the thread.

It's just like cooking, chocolate covered-salmon wouldn't be a good idea and perhaps this design needs rethinking.

 

[cindyclark]

I'm Not Giving Up

I'm Not Giving Up

Well, my customers are just adoring my keishis mixed with the gems, and of course the bigger the stones the better, so I can't give up. I have learned a few things.
1. For the really heavy designs, where a customer wants lots of stones on a 20 inch necklace of huge keishis, I am having them knotted on wire that is covered in string. So far, so good. It seems to be only one style of Amethysts from one vendor which is a big problem. I sorted them and am using the ones with rough edges for some chain designs with wire wrapping.
2. Some customers are just really rough on their jewelry and require a heavy duty technique no matter the design.
3. Keishis will cut silk.
4. Knotting and french wire is studier than bead tips without knots.
5. I am subbing out more of my work. Sometimes it pays to hire out to an expert stringer. My company is really growing so I can't keep up with the selling, designing and stringing. Plus, it is killing my eyes.

 

[Caitlin]

Hi Cindy
Thanks for reporting in. Good luck! It is great you can hire out the stringing-what a relief, huh?

 

[drea]

Hi Cindy

This is exactly the kind of problem Power Pro thread is useful for.

It drapes as well as silk. The only problem it it is rough on the hands after a couple of hundred knots. My sis-in-law actually got her hangnail caught in it and it made it worse.

Nevertheless, this is my very favorite for most of my pearls.

Hi Caitlin,
just a quick tip with regards to knotting hundreds of knots.. I often knot for extended periods of time, and after days of doing that everyone knows what your fingers will feel like. I actually found a tape that works wonders with protecting your fingers and not affecting your work when it's necessary.

I use a tape called 'Transpore' or 'Silk Tape' made by 3M to wrap around my fingers doing the knotting. The tape is actually a medical tape, which rips really well allowing you to get small or big pieces to wrap your fingers with. You can find this tape at any medical supply store..(A friends mom is a nurse and recommended it.. works wonders!)

I personally haven't used the Power Pro thread, as I use silk, but I'm sure it'll work just as well! Hope this helps!

 

[Caitlin]

Hi Drea
Thanks for the tip. I'll try it. I occasionally think I should tape my fingers, then I forget, probably because regular tape is so heavy.