think naturals?

[ladykemma]

think these could be naturals? i was watching this auction. did not bid though.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...10038320985&rd=1&sspagename=STRK:MEWA:IT&rd=1

 

[mikehrz]

THIS IS A BEAUTIFUL DOUBLE STRAND 7.75" LONG 7MM-7.5 MM CULTURED PEARL BRACELET WITH 18 KT DIAMOND STUDDED FILIGREE CLASP AND SPACERS.

The seller didn't seem to think so. He probably would have asked more for it if they are. Luster seems just ok.

 

[ladykemma]

he seemed like a doofus. found a bunch of valuables under a grand-mother's bed. they vary in size, so i thought maybe....

 

[Zeide Erskine]

Hi Lady Kemma & Mike,

The bracelet looks to me like it originally constisted of all akoya PPBs some of which have worn out and been replaced with medium-low quality freshwater cultured pearls.

Zeide

 

[jshepherd]

If you check his list view, there also appear to be a couple of freshwater strands listed as #1 natural South Sea (pink), and #2 cultured pink. He may know antiques, but not pearls, and definitely not value.

 

[jshepherd]

Here are a couple of past auctions by the same seller which tell the story pretty well...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=43082&item=110025867230

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=43082&item=110033289817

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=43082&item=110034385469
(One of the worst! Some one really got taken on a low-grade black freshwater necklace. This one is serious fraud).

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=43084&item=110036975352
(pic is bad, but sure looks like a cfwp necklace)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=43082&item=110037860955
(Another serious fraudulent case. Over $1000 for another low-grade freshwater)

Not only would I say that the bracelet is not natural in the first mentioned auction, this pattern of deception and fraud cannot be accidental. I would really like to hear what that gem lab says.

Sorry, even with 100% positive feedback rating, birdman993 appears to be nothing more than a thief - at least as his pearl auctions are concerned. Some poor winners were really taken to the cleaners.

Again, I would love to hear what he has to say about this, but have we ever, even once had a dishonest eBay seller come here to defend their actions, I mean auctions?

 

[Valeria101]

Phew! What a sorry string of unfortunate transactions ...

To be honest, the cheapo clasp of the bracelet would have deterred any further question about what those pearls are. The feedback list is just plain awful to look at!

Has anyone ever found unrecognized natural pearls on Ebay?

Can't say I've looked around all that much, but aside Skinner's Ebay auctions, I can't remember any suspiciously 'natural' pearls on Ebay. With so many jewelry auctions online, that can't be true though... right?

Skinner's would not be described as natural pearls unless there is a lab report. If something reads 'cultured' but looks otherwise, calling for advice about the particular listing helps: if there is any doubt about the cultured vs. natural, freshwater VS. saltwater or nucleation status, you get to hear about it (tried on one occasion). However, there isn't always the opportunity to confirm the nature of the items before bidding on them, which leaves some meager space for wishful thinking

 

[Zeide Erskine]

Hi Ana,

I recently won this at auction for about ?200.00. I still have to have the pearl tested but the gold is heavy 18k (assayed) and the pearl looks like a gem-grade 20grain (5ct, 9mm) slightly off-round Bahraini natural.

Zeide

 

[Valeria101]

Wow! Time for me to get less jaded, it seems.

If you call it potentially natural, I am ready to believe it. Fingers crossed for the ID.

 

[Zeide Erskine]

Hi Jeremy,

Although I agree that the appraisals look uninformed, I have seen plenty of the likes from GIA graduate gemologists for bricks-and-mortar stores who either actually believed this or were in on the racket. A good example for this is the US$10,000.00 appraisal for my akoyas-in-law that I gave to Inge.

Moreover, the necklaces do not look low-quality to me (as opposed to the cultured pearls in the bracelet) and not only were priced in line with the market as I have seen so far but maybe even conservative given the size of the cultured pearls. In short, although the buyers did not get South Sea pearls, they got someting qualitatively better for much less which is generally considered a good deal rather than a bad one. Afterall, if you are buying a pearl item declared as cultured that you have a reasonable suspicion of to be natural and it turns out that way, that's a good deal not a bad one even if the item was not declared factually. Since South Sea PPBs are brutally overpriced and nice, well-rounded freshwater cultured pearls are hard to find, these, too, were good deals.

Zeide

 

[jshepherd]

If this strand is 8.5-10mm, then I am 8'6".
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=43082&item=110037860955
The strand is more likey 7.7-8.7mm. If you see the pearls near the fh clasp, it just does not work.

$1000 for this necklace could (in my opinion) in no way be construed as a good deal. Although the strand is not of a terribly low quality, it is certainly not of fine quality. $1000 would be very high retail for this piece. $200 would be fair, and $50 would be hard to secure on an eBay auction with an honest description and valuation. eBay is not situated on a corner in Rodeo Drive.

By lying about the piece and producing a fake lab report, the birdmann993 was able to get a bid of $1,026 for this strand! THAT makes this an exceptionally bad case fraud, and birdman993 an exceptionally bad case.

 

[Zeide Erskine]

Hi Jeremy,

I agree that this one looked somewhat on the overpriced score. However the 11mm+ pinks were not at all bad and I've seen substantially higher prices for them even in less exalted retail locations than Rodeo Drive. Also, especially color-enhanced Tahitians have come far down in price so getting a freshwater dyed strand rather than Tahitian cultured PPBs of questionable color origin makes freshwater pearls a reasonable alternative and overall the better deal. Have you ever gone to a California department store and looked at the Tahitians they sell there. I think I once called the color something a goat would be ashamed to drop while others were definitely treated with peeling nacre much worse than even the lowest grade freshwaters. Buying jewelry is either an art or a taste decision. What I would never, ever rely on are appraisals and gem identifications prepared by a seller, retail or e-tail.

Zeide

 

[mikehrz]

Not only would I say that the bracelet is not natural in the first mentioned auction, this pattern of deception and fraud cannot be accidental. I would really like to hear what that gem lab says (if the gem lab even exists) about those worthless reports.

It exists. Well, maybe.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...ndexURL=6&photoDisplayType=2#ebayphotohosting
The phone # (813)801-9860 in the photo leads to
Tampa Gem Laboratory, Inc.
R. Fred Ingram
4032-B W. Kennedy Blvd.
Tampa, FL 33609
although superpages.com lists their address as 3941 West Kennedy Boulevard, Tampa, FL 33609.
Has anyone ever heard of http://www.jvclegal.org ? The Tampa Gem Laboratory is on their site:
http://www.jvclegal.org/j_florida.html

CREDENTIALS
American Gem Society Certified Gemologist; Gia Graduate Gemologist

EDUCATION
J-BAR Course

JEWELRY ORGANIZATION MEMBERSHIPS
National Association Of Jewelry Appraisers

APPRAISAL EXPERIENCE
Five years at American Gem Society store; 14 years as an independent appraiser

Can't tell how old this info is, though.

So, who wants to make a phone call?

 

[jshepherd]

Oh please, let me have the pleasure of making this phone call I will see if we cannot get the "appraiser" on the board.

 

[mikehrz]

Oh please, let me have the pleasure of making this phone call I will see if we cannot get the "appraiser" on the board.

Somehow I figured you would want that. I would call myself, but I think "Hi, I'm the owner of a multi-million-dollar pearl business" would sound a lot more impressive than "Hi, I'm Joe Schmoe."

BTW, the jvclegal page above also lists 813-289-9819.

 

[jshepherd]

Just called and spoke with a nice lady that told me she was quite certain that the pearls on auction must be different from those that they appraised, as Mr. Ingram does know pearls quite well and would not make that type of mistake. The appraisals were indeed prepared by their lab.

I have sent them a link to this thread as well as the eBay auction numbers that are in question. Hopefully they will come here to respond.

Thanks for the detective work, Mike!

 

[mikehrz]

No problem. I'm pleasantly surprised to see an appraiser responding.

And congrats on your 1000th post! Maybe you'll catch up with Zeide one of these days...

 

[jshepherd]

Make that 1001! I don't think I will ever be able to catch up to Zeide!

An update on the previously discussed autions!

I did receive an email from appraiser who is currently out of town dealing with some family issues. He promissed to contact me upon his return.

I spoke with the winner of the $1000+ strand of dyed freshwater pearls this morning. She immediately contacted the seller and told him the deal was off. So, one more consumer saved!