Natural pearls of pinctada

[boedhyzr]

Hello my name is Budi from Indonesia. Here in Indonesia, my daily work is by manage some traditional divers fishermans. Mainly we're looking for an Octopus to supplying a seafood manufacturer. Some time we also look for some seashell to supplying some handicraft producers.
When we diving for seashell, often we found some rare natural pearls. What we want to know is, what is the different between natural pearls of pinctada Maxima and pinctada Margaritifera? Because often we found pearls of gold lip oyster in silver color, and from black lip oyster in silver too.
Are they could be in the same group, as the south sea natural pearls? Any idea from other member, that's much experience than we do. About the photos you might be able to check in my profil photo album "Natural Pearls" Thanks a lot.

 

[SteveM]

Budi,

P. Margaritifera shell can produce pearls in the silver/gold range although these are more rare. But your photos appear to intermix calcareous and mustika objects along with a nacreous pearl or two?

 

[Caitlin]

Some of those I have not seen before- like that blue one. It is translucent like a marble. I'd like to learn more about how it developed. I have heard that Maximas and Margaritiferas can cross each others' range of colors, though the rule is more darker Margaritiferas and more light Maximas.

We once were told an urban legend that Paspaley trades its dark Maximas for light Margaritiferas from Jewelmer. Not true, of course, but it is another indication of the range of colors being overlapping

Steve, which do you think are the mustikas? Can Pearls make bezoars?

 

[SteveM]

Steve, which do you think are the mustikas? Can Pearls make bezoars?

Caitlin, a classic nacreous bezoar is the abalone horn (or tooth) baroque pearl, from the abalone's digestive tract.

Are we open to the possibility of a glassy, translucent white/yellow/blue sphere being produced inside of an oyster? Perhaps the result of digesting radioactive oil spillage?

On the other hand, bamboo pearls come in a fascinating natural range of colors?

 

[boedhyzr]

Hello every body. Thanks for your quick respons. I Love this forum activity, even I'm new in here.
First For smetzler, is that what you mean is the photo of pinctada margaritifera, intermix calcareous. That's maybe according to my skill of photograpy is less. I'll try to take it again and I'll let you know it. About mustika, maybe what you mean is the photo of pinctada maxima with shell? It is one pearls with naturally shape.
For Caitlin, yes the blue one is pearl. It's an unusual one. I don't believe, since I took it my self in my hand.
I think I do agree with a very rare natural pearl in silver from pinctada margaritifera. Because I've found it too by my self in 5metre deep. But in little size, also silver color. Thanks for all

 

[Caitlin]

Hi Budi
Please keep the info flowing

Steve,
the abalone bezoar is the classic example and much better than horse bezoars, but for the rest, I got a great laugh. You're not going to give up until I concede, are you?

I'll concede when you go to the land where they are found and find and photograph one in situ, then follow and photograph them through the processing, because I am positive they are made by Indonesian elves who come out from their invisible dwellings at night to fry them up in glass ovens then toss them around for the shamans to find.

 

[SteveM]

You're not going to give up until I concede, are you?

We're eye to eye on this one, Caitlin. Budi, from the land of mustika, was hoping to put one over on us here but had no inkling that the subject would already have been so thoroughly digested (and eliminated).

 

[Caitlin]

You think the blue marble is a bezoar from the pinctada's gut? Or one of the ones made by Indonesian Elves and magically transported into the Shell?

 

[SteveM]

You think the blue marble is a bezoar from the pinctada's gut? Or one of the ones made by Indonesian Elves and magically transported into the Shell?

Let's see if Budi cares to comment.

 

[boedhyzr]

Wow! Two senior members of Pearl-Guide.com, is talk over about our blue pearl one. Me as a new comer have feel a very strut about it. Thanks to all of you.

Ok, firstly I'll talk about our divers team.
We are a worker type of traditional divers. Maybe only me that is had a future though. Our main orientations is to sell what ever we've found when we diving. That's Octopus, seashells, also pearls. And about the pearls, that's must be a rare natural pearls, we sure about that.
About the photos in my profil album, some of them are been sold by some local collectors and local pearl traders. Especially the Gastropods pearls, which is been sold in very cheap prices. That's because we don't know yet about the real value, unless until I've read this site.
You can see it in the older photos that have a bad quality, that's because we only use a phone camera to take it.
So, after we sold those pearls, we have a profit, that we use it to buy a digital camera, you can see the better quality in the last three of the photos. That's the pinctada maxima and margaritifera pearls photos.
And those big one of Pinctada Maxima Natural Pearl is already sold too, and the buyer is, you might be know her, Mrs.KariAnderson.

About Caitlin's comments, which is a little magical trusted.
I thinks that's because you knew about the Indonesian traditional cultures, that's is believe to some of magicals.
But that's not absolutelly wrong, because those pearl is sold by a pearl trader, than we heard after that, the pearl trader had sold the blue pearl to a businessman, which is believe that those pearl could make him in very better luck in his business work.
But, we don't care about it.

About Smetzler comments, which is use logical thought. About some radioactive.
I think that's might be almost right. That's because we've found those pearls inside the 17cm in diameter of pinctada margaritifera. And the locations where we've found it is in the south side ocean of banyuwangi, near from the locations of a traditional gold minning, that's use a mercury in their works.

Which is right? I still don't know.
Because, the blue pearl is already sold, and we couldn't make some laboratory test to it. That's our team wrong steps have made. And we are sorry about that.
Thanks to all of you. About your comments
Budi

 

[boedhyzr]

Hello my senior, Did you saw the questions firstly? I've asked about the different of between 2 type of pinctada natural pearls? Right? The pinctada maxima and margaritifera. Are they could be in the same silver colour? And are they could be in the same group, as the south sea natural pearls groups? The first questions is already answered, but how about the second questions? Are they in the same of the south sea natural pearls groups?

 

[GemGeek]

I've heard that some people mix those pearls together, selling the light ones as South Sea pearls and the darker ones as Tahitians. I'll be someone else will comment.

 

[Caitlin]

what is the different between natural pearls of pinctada Maxima and pinctada Margaritifera? Because often we found pearls of gold lip oyster in silver color, and from black lip oyster in silver too.
Are they could be in the same group, as the south sea natural pearls? Any idea from other member, that's much experience than we do. About the photos you might be able to check in my profil photo album "Natural Pearls" Thanks a lot.

We have white lip and gold lip maximas known as South Sea pearls. They are the same species. The majority of the white lips give white and silver pearls, the gold give mostly gold but other colors are known to occur in both types.

Then we have the black lip or Margaritiferas known as Tahitian when from Tahiti or by the territory they came from. They are a different species than the maximas.The black lip has mostly dark pearls but it has the biggest color range including some light pearls like silver.

I hope this helps.

I thought Smetzler was making a wry comment about the contaminated waters....but you seem to confirm it!

Your crews are "traditional". Do they believe in fairies? I think possibly both smetzler and I do believe something like that. You may not care, but the very nature of the pearls indicates that faeries may not be entirely out of the question.

Please share any more pearl finds you can get with your digital camera. You are unique on this forum for being at the fishing/diving end of the chain.

 

[jshepherd]

https://www.pearl-guide.com/forum/album.php?albumid=149&pictureid=1288
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None are pearls

https://www.pearl-guide.com/forum/album.php?albumid=149&pictureid=1287
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No way

https://www.pearl-guide.com/forum/album.php?albumid=149&pictureid=1300
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Yes, either natural or keshi

https://www.pearl-guide.com/forum/album.php?albumid=149&pictureid=1299
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Possibly clam

https://www.pearl-guide.com/forum/album.php?albumid=149&pictureid=1298
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Same

What I am seeing is several pearls mixed together with polished shell and what appears to be (in the case of the blue for sure and possibly the yellow) marbles.

The collage of seven...not one pearl amongst the bunch.

 

[KAC]

(in the case of the blue for sure and possibly the yellow) marbles.

yes but they are extremely rare and valuable marbles, possibly the only marbles to ever be made by a mollusk - amazing finds

 

[Caitlin]

Hi JS, Thanks for the references. I got hung up on the blue pearl and did not really look at the others.

Here is the comment I put under the album picture of the blue marble.

Is it a mustika? Those are often formed of glass-like substances. If so, this would be a margaritifera mustika, not an actual pearl. It is impossible for a blue translucent non-nacreous sphere to be formed in the shell of the margaritifera. It had to be an elf that put it there.

Budi, you need to admit the truth of your photos' origins. Glass marbles, even if they were specially made for the mustika trade, simply can't be described as pearls, unless you call them bezoar or mustika "pearls" preferably with the quotes.

Search for those two words on this site and you will see that we have already had lengthy discussions about the topic of Bezoars and Mustikas.

I have always held that the ones online are all being sold and therefore did not originate with a shaman discovering them in the wild woods, (or the deep sea) but from glassworks (or woodworks) that operate with traditional and/or creative techniques and sell through traders to those who are the equivalent of the Mexican Yerberias folk-remedy shops.

Then the Englishmen/shamans found them, they sold them at their own shamanic with an Indo twist, workshops , but the trade sure has increased since the mustika trade has gone online. It helps the artisans and everyone along the line to make a few more pennies. It is too lucrative at hundreds of pounds per artifact to admit they are man made and sold all the way to the final receiver. They are a trade item and there is nothing wrong with that, unless the marketing is misleading in order to drive up the price.

In this case scenario, our opinions as to your pearls' natural-ness might tend to give credibility to the mustika trade and make them worth more money, esp if more people believed the "made by elves", er, "found by a shaman" theory.

In spite of all that, I can see people being attracted to one or another bezoar or mustika and wanting to have it- except for the prices. A native made artifact $20, a Natural Mustika Pearl $100

 

[lisa c]

So folks, after the extensive research, and pictures from Pierrette and Steve of the past two years, is anyone interested in revisiting the conclusions? Not whether the items are pearls (nacreous) or not, but whether the items are genuine? I guess the round scallops' product will pass muster, but the cassis in particular - I guess we should look at Steve's photos because the shapes are glass-beadish, but the colors in the orange one...

Reading these old posts is fascinating.

 

[GemGeek]

Whatever the blue glass, etc, Budi did have genuine Cassis Cornuta pearls for sale.

 

[SteveM]

Douglas's squid-eye lens gives us another range of possibilities among the strange objects that come from the sea. While glass remains the chief suspect, who knows?his source was a trusted diver.

Budi was also the subject of my thread/diary here detailing the process of acquisition of a purported natural SS pearl and the final determination that it was beaded. He learned from both experiences and focused entirely on non-nacreous pearls after that.

Below is a pair of well-matched, GIA-SPECIES-CERTIFIED Pinctada Maxima natural pearls. Just to keep everyone thinking!

 

[Marianne]

WOW!
Marianne