Spherical Flower
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- Dec 27, 2007
- Messages
- 67
Mine the Gold and Kill the Salmon?
- Thread starter Spherical Flower
- Start date
V
Valeria101
Guest
Tiffany 'greener' then Oxfam? LOL! Can't those people agree ?
And then, there is that little word: 'knowingly'
Gold is bought and sold as a commodity, of course, so one can very easily not know where their supply comes from. Ugh
And then, there is that little word: 'knowingly'
Gold is bought and sold as a commodity, of course, so one can very easily not know where their supply comes from. Ugh complete and utter BS - how in the world would they know where it came from. That gold will be put on the open market and bought and mixed with other sources.
Just corporate BS trying to jump on the green bandwagon. Besides they currently buy gold that came from mines that have destroyed other ecosystems, it just wasn't from North America so who cares right
As a side note, if anybody wants to save wild salmon - boycott farmed salmon its the best thing a consumer could do to help this fish.
Just corporate BS trying to jump on the green bandwagon. Besides they currently buy gold that came from mines that have destroyed other ecosystems, it just wasn't from North America so who cares right
As a side note, if anybody wants to save wild salmon - boycott farmed salmon its the best thing a consumer could do to help this fish.
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Valeria101
Guest
That's interesting... what is the reasoning: perhaps that reduced farming will push for sustainable management of wild fisheries? [just a question: all I know about the matter is ... how different the two taste, LOL!]
well thats a battle I'm actively involved in, but I'll try and not write a novel.
Here are a few good reasons though:
- 1lb of farmed salmon takes 5lbs of feed that is literally vacuumed off the ocean floor and should be feed for wild fish that desperately need it.
- 200,000 farmed salmon creates the same amount of sewage as 62,000 homes do. Except it all gets deposited in an area half the size of a hockey rink and isn't treated.
- Farms use massive amounts of antibiotics to control the rampant disease the fecal matter creates.
- They are a massive breeding ground for sea lice, which attached to juvenile wild salmon, which have no defenses.
- Areas with salmon farms have seen local wild populations of wild salmon plummet to all time historical lows. Some areas are predicting complete extinction within 15 years if the farms are not removed.
- Salmon farms have been banned from almost all of Europe and now take advantage of loose laws(Canada) or poor economies(Argentina).
the list goes on and on and on, so forget gold - if you want to save salmon buy wild fish.
Here are a few good reasons though:
- 1lb of farmed salmon takes 5lbs of feed that is literally vacuumed off the ocean floor and should be feed for wild fish that desperately need it.
- 200,000 farmed salmon creates the same amount of sewage as 62,000 homes do. Except it all gets deposited in an area half the size of a hockey rink and isn't treated.
- Farms use massive amounts of antibiotics to control the rampant disease the fecal matter creates.
- They are a massive breeding ground for sea lice, which attached to juvenile wild salmon, which have no defenses.
- Areas with salmon farms have seen local wild populations of wild salmon plummet to all time historical lows. Some areas are predicting complete extinction within 15 years if the farms are not removed.
- Salmon farms have been banned from almost all of Europe and now take advantage of loose laws(Canada) or poor economies(Argentina).
the list goes on and on and on, so forget gold - if you want to save salmon buy wild fish.
P
Perle
Guest
Wow, that's really shocking I'm pretty sure the salmon we buy is wild, but I'm checking the package next time . . . .
Perle
I'm pretty sure the salmon we buy is wild, but I'm checking the package next time . . . .Perle
Hanaleimom
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You also don't know what the feed is made out of.
I have read about farmed salmon recently and now am making wild salmon purchase only.
I have read about farmed salmon recently and now am making wild salmon purchase only.
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Valeria101
Guest
Yikes! Some of these bleak details sound familiar, but this is the first time I am seeing them put together.
At some point I have been involved with a trout farming operation and came to know the local industry fairly well - silly me, I thought farming salmon looks somewhat similar, LOL! From your description, it doesn't sound like anyone would want to take a dip anywhere near a salmon farm, and that was the best part of my consulting for the trout breeder. The other nice part was the fish dished out in every size and form of aggregation We wouldn't touch the wild stock... Different world, apparently.
At some point I have been involved with a trout farming operation and came to know the local industry fairly well - silly me, I thought farming salmon looks somewhat similar, LOL! From your description, it doesn't sound like anyone would want to take a dip anywhere near a salmon farm, and that was the best part of my consulting for the trout breeder. The other nice part was the fish dished out in every size and form of aggregation
We wouldn't touch the wild stock... Different world, apparently.That's the problem, most people think farmed salmon will some how put less pressure on wild stocks. Unfortuneatly its the exact opposite.
From the National Geographic:
Farmed Salmon Decimating Wild Salmon Worldwide
From the National Geographic:
Farmed Salmon Decimating Wild Salmon Worldwide
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Slraep
Guest
Open net fish farming pens are an incredible detriment to ocean ecology. Disgusting, really. I'm with the lobby 100%. The problem is oh-so-similar to uncontrolled freshwater pearl production in China.
I have a friend who went to Argentina to try and sell a product---an enzyme that breaks down fish faeces---and when he came back, he said he would never touch any farmed fish or shellfish for as long as he lived, unless someone stuck a gun to his head. The disease, the sewage, it all gave him nightmares. And he was previously buying and eating this very product. I must admit, his description of what goes on at the "farm", made me gag quite a few times.
The average man, if given the opportunity to make a buck, does not really care what harm results from it. I guess this is just another of a long list of "abuses" we can seriously try to remedy by not giving this industry our hard earned dollar.
MORE things about Canadian farmed salmon:
1. Farmed salmon are grown in floating netcages and
impact wild salmon and other marine species by
spreading disease and parasites.
2. Farmed salmon are given antibiotics, other drugs and
pesticides. The drug-laden wastes from surplus food
and faeces pollute the marine environment.
3. Most farmed salmon in British Columbia—about 70
percent—are alien Atlantic stocks. The United
Nations says the introduction of exotic species is
extremely harmful to local ecosystems and is one of
the greatest threats to nature.
4. Farmed salmon escape from their netcages—often by
the thousands—and can displace fragile wild stocks
from their habitat.
5. Farmed salmon are given antibiotics that are also used
to treat human illness. This contributes to the dangerous
increase of antibiotic-resistant disease worldwide.
6. Farmed salmon receive more antibiotics by weight
than any other livestock.
7. Farmed salmon contain higher levels of unhealthy
saturated fats and lower levels of beneficial omega-3
fatty acids. A U.S. Agriculture Department study
found farmed Atlantic salmon contain 70 percent
more fat than wild Atlantic salmon because of the
high fat content in their feed.
8. Farmed Atlantic salmon contain 200 percent more fat
than wild Pacific pink or chum salmon.
9. Farmed salmon actually represent a ‘net loss’ of
protein worldwide. Three to five kilograms of
other fish are used to make the feed to produce
every kilogram of farmed salmon.
10. Farmed salmon pose a threat to wild stocks because:
•Parasites and disease can pass through the
netcages and contaminate wild salmon.
11. Farmed salmon have greatly reduced the
price of wild salmon, forcing fishermen to
increase their catch in order to make a living.
12. In blind taste tests, farmed salmon loses every
time. Testers—including chefs, food critics and
fishermen—have judged the taste and texture of
wild salmon to be far superior to farmed varieties,
which are often found to be bland and mushy.
13. Farmed salmon are also administered chemical
dyes to colour their flesh an appealing salmon
pink; otherwise the flesh would be grey.
14. Many foods are contaminated with PCBs, but farmed
salmon tend to have two to five times the PCB levels of
beef, pork, milk and eggs.
15. Canada farms about 60,000 tonnes of salmon a
year – 50,000 tonnes in British Columbia, 10,000 in the
Maritimes. Salmon farming is a $700-million-a-year business
in Canada.
16. Canada exports about 80 per cent of its farmed salmon.
Slraep
I have a friend who went to Argentina to try and sell a product---an enzyme that breaks down fish faeces---and when he came back, he said he would never touch any farmed fish or shellfish for as long as he lived, unless someone stuck a gun to his head. The disease, the sewage, it all gave him nightmares. And he was previously buying and eating this very product. I must admit, his description of what goes on at the "farm", made me gag quite a few times.
The average man, if given the opportunity to make a buck, does not really care what harm results from it. I guess this is just another of a long list of "abuses" we can seriously try to remedy by not giving this industry our hard earned dollar.
MORE things about Canadian farmed salmon:
1. Farmed salmon are grown in floating netcages and
impact wild salmon and other marine species by
spreading disease and parasites.
2. Farmed salmon are given antibiotics, other drugs and
pesticides. The drug-laden wastes from surplus food
and faeces pollute the marine environment.
3. Most farmed salmon in British Columbia—about 70
percent—are alien Atlantic stocks. The United
Nations says the introduction of exotic species is
extremely harmful to local ecosystems and is one of
the greatest threats to nature.
4. Farmed salmon escape from their netcages—often by
the thousands—and can displace fragile wild stocks
from their habitat.
5. Farmed salmon are given antibiotics that are also used
to treat human illness. This contributes to the dangerous
increase of antibiotic-resistant disease worldwide.
6. Farmed salmon receive more antibiotics by weight
than any other livestock.
7. Farmed salmon contain higher levels of unhealthy
saturated fats and lower levels of beneficial omega-3
fatty acids. A U.S. Agriculture Department study
found farmed Atlantic salmon contain 70 percent
more fat than wild Atlantic salmon because of the
high fat content in their feed.
8. Farmed Atlantic salmon contain 200 percent more fat
than wild Pacific pink or chum salmon.
9. Farmed salmon actually represent a ‘net loss’ of
protein worldwide. Three to five kilograms of
other fish are used to make the feed to produce
every kilogram of farmed salmon.
10. Farmed salmon pose a threat to wild stocks because:
•Parasites and disease can pass through the
netcages and contaminate wild salmon.
11. Farmed salmon have greatly reduced the
price of wild salmon, forcing fishermen to
increase their catch in order to make a living.
12. In blind taste tests, farmed salmon loses every
time. Testers—including chefs, food critics and
fishermen—have judged the taste and texture of
wild salmon to be far superior to farmed varieties,
which are often found to be bland and mushy.
13. Farmed salmon are also administered chemical
dyes to colour their flesh an appealing salmon
pink; otherwise the flesh would be grey.
14. Many foods are contaminated with PCBs, but farmed
salmon tend to have two to five times the PCB levels of
beef, pork, milk and eggs.
15. Canada farms about 60,000 tonnes of salmon a
year – 50,000 tonnes in British Columbia, 10,000 in the
Maritimes. Salmon farming is a $700-million-a-year business
in Canada.
16. Canada exports about 80 per cent of its farmed salmon.
Slraep
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Valeria101
Guest
That sounds neat - the enclosed setting. However... I think that the local fairy-tale (well, at least by comparison) is only nice because the farmers cannot afford the filthy technologies that allow significant scaling up. So far, the operations are small, production low and the output a luxury item that we were trying to find a way to label for ecological correctness just to afford wages increase into civilized ranges and some access to markets where such labeling makes sense... a long shot indeed that guarantees little in the long run. Without the long shot - I am afraid that scaling up will spoil the picture into something less like a walk in a park and more like the foul land-locked mussel farming in China . For better or worse, it isn't consciousness but lack of investment that keeps the trout farms clean. As far as I can foresee, this will keep going on ... perhaps until old-fashioned, inneficient, clean trout farming disappears and all the workers will have left the country to work on one of those foul salmon farms that kill the oceans but make allot of cash in the process [OK, we did not track emigration to that point, but workers are going somewhere else for sure; clean farming has a hard time paying for itself, so far]. Now, if only the concern for the environment would also help clean technologies compete ... wouldn't that be a darling!
. For better or worse, it isn't consciousness but lack of investment that keeps the trout farms clean. As far as I can foresee, this will keep going on ... perhaps until old-fashioned, inneficient, clean trout farming disappears and all the workers will have left the country to work on one of those foul salmon farms that kill the oceans but make allot of cash in the process [OK, we did not track emigration to that point, but workers are going somewhere else for sure; clean farming has a hard time paying for itself, so far]. Now, if only the concern for the environment would also help clean technologies compete ... wouldn't that be a darling!Its already happened, there are self sustaining Altantic salmon populations using Vancouver Island streams for spawning.
There is a company on my home island (Vancouver Island) that has created a ocean based closed containment system. Its basically a floating plastic bin with filtration and waste collection built in.
The technology is in place and ready to go, but these farms will never spend the money unless forced to.
When Canada does finally get its act together and pass this legislation, the farming companies won't comply, they will just leave and set up in another country.
The sad thing is, they are mostly norwegian owned companies, but Norway banned fish farms a long time ago.
Oh this subject makes me so sad
S
Slraep
Guest
Valeria101 said:
Hi Ana,
Do you mean that the open pen farming operations are small? Production low? What luxury item?? Farmed salmon is a luxury item in Canada?? Boy, that's news to me! I think you could grab a rock and toss it any which way, here where I live, and hit some farmed salmon steaks! Canada farms so much salmon that 80-85% gets sold to the US without making a dent here. Aquacultured fish is a 267 MILLION DOLLAR A YEAR industry in British Columbia, Canada.
I don't understand the rest of your paragraph. Maybe I've misunderstood everything. Do you mean that we should sit back and do absolutely nothing about these polluting industries, except wishful thinking that they will go away on their own? So we should still buy farmed salmon regardless of the ecological disaster of it. That we should feel sorry for the workers? You think a Canadian fisheries worker will migrate to a third world country because his fish farming job no longer exists?? Good Lord, his/her Canadian welfare check alone would probably be 100 times greater than a salary abroad! I don't think any fish farm workers will be leaving Argentina any time soon if the fish farms closed there either. You really cannot make a proper asado anywhere in India!
Slraep
S
Slraep
Guest
Government legislation helps, of course, up to a point, but ultimately each individual has a duty to the human race, and that is to spend his dollar wisely. They can set up in any country they want, but if everyone shunned salmon from open pen farming, then that would put the screws to them.
I am at the other end of Canada, on Prince Edward Island. Here we are starting to have very serious problems with fish dying from pesticide run off from potato growing fields. People do not complain about the rising levels of pesticides and fungicides farmers are using. I don't know why buying an organic potato is so alien to people. It would save the fish in PEI's rivers, lakes and ponds, not to mention improve people's health(blood cancers on the rise). This past summer, there were quite a few localized ecological disasters but not enough to really shock people. But it's coming.
Yes, it's all sad sad sad.
Slraep
I am at the other end of Canada, on Prince Edward Island. Here we are starting to have very serious problems with fish dying from pesticide run off from potato growing fields. People do not complain about the rising levels of pesticides and fungicides farmers are using. I don't know why buying an organic potato is so alien to people. It would save the fish in PEI's rivers, lakes and ponds, not to mention improve people's health(blood cancers on the rise). This past summer, there were quite a few localized ecological disasters but not enough to really shock people. But it's coming.
Yes, it's all sad sad sad.
Slraep
V
Valeria101
Guest
Slraep said:
No, but framed trout in Romanian is...
Slraep said:
Right... that's large scale farming. And I am wondering whether the large scale aspect is the fundamental problem - if either inland or offshore technologies can be environmentally friendly at such a large scale. Perhaps there is a possibility, I don't know.
Slraep said:
The rest was about trout farmers here... migration, wages, lack of investment, small scale... quite the opposite to the Canadian salmon case in just about every way. And that makes the comparison of the two cases interesting, I thought: What connects the cases is that #1. local (=from where I am standing) trout farmers do aspire to the apparent wealth of the economically developed but polluting industries, and #2 on the other side, the large scale farming at least should aspire to the low environmental impact of what these poor folks do.
I am not surprised that there was some misunderstanding: farming practices from the low and the high end are almost never compared for environmental performance. As if they were operating on different planets instead of sharing the same one...
S
Slraep
Guest
Different story, for sure.
Honestly, why tackle it from difficult angles? Why not cut the demand, then the supply will dwindle. It would be great if every human put their thinking cap on and made green choices, but I must admit, on the whole, humans are not very proactive when they must change or give something up. I still insist that the way we use our buying power can change the world. We must learn how to use this powerful tool.
Still, whether comparing small crude operations to "state of the art" ones, there should be clear cut rules to protect the environment. Ideally it should not even be "low" impact, it should be "no" impact. Doesn't matter how big or small an operation, what it is doing, how many it provides employment for, where it is situated or anything else because everything is connected and we will all suffer the rotten consequences probably more sooner than later. Why wait for government to do anything? They are always, on average, twenty years behind what is really happening. The Canadian government is still spewing disinformation about open pen fish farming. They still deny that farmers use dye and other banned substances while raising salmon. Yummy, the consumer gets to eat this tasty crap. Mmmm...farmed salmon.
Slraep
And sport fishing in BC alone is worth 600 Million dollars / year - let alone commercial fishing.
But the consumer doesn't know this, most think they are helping wild salmon by buying farmed.
Just like I didn't know PEI potatoes were causing a problem with fish on your end of country.
V
Valeria101
Guest
Slraep said:
No.. not even a chunk of fish, let alone a whole industry of it!
Can't get into militant consumerism... maybe next life.
Slraep said:
'Wonder if there is such thing, unless we have a different definition of 'impact' - to me, that's 'effect' - something one species has over another in any ecosystem, natural or not.
It isn't that I like things from difficult angles, it seems that the easy angles don't go very far with this one. Altruism is quite rare, and so is common sense, and adequate information. Getting together all three ingredients together seems remarkably rare... which makes me trust less that social pressure to do the right thing. Government? N'ah. They had their chance for a long while.
Green pearls ?
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