Is this a Scammer?

[ckrickett]

I have heard tales of Scammers who prey on smaller sellers on Etsy and other selling platforms. I had a person inquire about one of my necklaces on Etsy, and ask to correspond via email. This didn't strike me as odd, because I get it all the time from my other Etsy shops. So they asked for a discount, and that seemed fair and they agreed on what I offered then they asked to send a bank check. I am all for bank checks, but I know it seems to be a scam that is going around. Where the check doesn't clear but people send the item when funds are available then when the check bounces they are responsible to return the funds and are out the money and the products. (https://www.etsy.com/help/article/336). I will include the convo below (ommitting andyones email unless you think I should supply it) and you let me know what you think.

Original Etsy Message-

Hi Mate,I want to purchase this item posted and kindly email me back to my personal email(j******gmail.com) for quick response so we can plan or the paying method

My Response (ME) and then their Replies (THEM)

Me-
Hello, and thank you for inquiring about https://www.etsy.com/listing/505960140/colorful-circled-baroque-tahitian-pearl.
Did you have any questions on payment methods, layaway, and shipping/insurance?

Please let me know, and thanks for reaching out

Them-
what is your final asking price for it

Me-
$$ Price including shipping but that's also final sale

Them-
will you accept a bank check as the mode of paymeant

Me-
A bank check is fine, necklace will ship when the funds are cleared. And we ask that the check is sent certified mail

Them-
.I will make arrangements for the pick up as soon as you have your check clear
Full Name to write on the Check,Full Postal Address Apt suite City State zip-code Last price Phone

**this is the response that threw me off**

Me-
I will give you the info but will have you make the purchase on etsy (that will have an invoice and is safe for both parties) but I will lower the price of the necklace and change payment options to include bank check. I will do this tomorrow

Them-
Okay

At this point I went back to etsy and went to see if they had any activity on their user profile, but they had deleted their etsy account. Their Username and email didn't match up, at first that didn't bother me because I have seen that all the time (throughout my other etsy store I have over 8000 sales).

I decided to send them some terms regarding payment and shipping and I made these a little overtly harsh. I usually have no issue with refunds and will cover items out of pocket if they are lost or damaged in the mail. And pay for items to be reshipped if they are returned to us. But something about this felt wrong so I wanted to cover my bases...

Me Reply-

Ok, so to just tighten everything up before I create the listing for you with the free shipping and lower price I listed the agreement below. I will also send this message to you on Etsy and require you to confirm you agree there (on etsy) before I move forward. I know these are a little long, but this helps protect you and us from fraud and scams.

Payment

All mailed payments MUST be sent Certified mail with signature confirmation to - Kristin West - MY ADDRESS.... This ensures that the payment is received, as we are NOT RESPONSIBLE for any lost or stolen payment in the mail.

Payments can be made in Bank Checks, Cashier Checks, USD Currency (cash), Paypal, or via CC through Etsy's Direct Checkout.

If you are paying with a Bank Check/Cashier Check you agree to wait until the payment has CLEARED (not when funds are available) to receive the item/have the item shipped to you. For Bank Checks depending on the bank, amount, and origin of the check this can take 4 weeks or longer. The item will not be shipped until the payment has cleared. You agree to this time frame and terms when sending a Bank Check.

This item is final sale and nonrefundable once payment has been accepted or cleared.

Shipping

If this item is being shipped within the USA, it will be sent Priority mail 2-3 delivery with signature confirmation, insurance, and tracking. PLEASE ENSURE you provide the correct address, as if the item is lost or stolen in the mail we are not responsible for it (but will work with you in filing a claim) and will not provide a refund.

Item will be sent within 24 hours of payment CLEARING (in the case of check) or once payment has been received.

If item is being sent Internationally, will be sent USPS International Priority with tracking and insurance. Be advised, for international purchases the buyer is responsible for all claims for the item if it is lost, damaged, or miss-delivered.

Even if the item has free shipping, the buyer is responsible for any duties, taxes, or customs fees if this is being shipped internationally. Failure to pay this and have the item returned will NOT result in a refund, and buyer will have to pay for the item to be reshipped.

Buyer is responsible for shipping fees if the item is returned to sender due to being given the incorrect address, or not signing/picking up their order. Item will not be refunded if returned to us.

If you have any more questions or concerns feel free to contact me on ETSY.

Thank you,
Kristin West
West Pearls​

I am worried if they are a legitimate buyer I may have come across to harsh. But I also have a bad feeling about this, because they deleted their etsy account, asked about a bank check, and when I said I would provide free shipping they wanted to work on pick up details? Was I wrong, to harsh?

Again we will always make sure our customers are satisfied, get their item and can buy with confidence. Something about this though made me feel uneasy so I went a little stricter in my last reply.

 

[pearlescence]

When something just doesn't feel right it usually isn't. I don't know about etsy as such but this screams 'bad' to me
Can you contact etsy to ask about them. They have access to all sorts of info. Likewise paypal and ebay can see all the cancelled transactions and stuff like that
They rely on getting a small seller all excited about a good sale.

 

[BWeaves]

If they are a legit buyer, they shouldn't be put off by a legit seller who gives them a contract with everything spelled out exactly as it needs to be with nothing vague.

With Paypal being so durn easy, I'm surprised anyone would mail a check to an online vendor.

 

[amti]

I'm pretty sure, like 99% sure, it is a scam.

One of the ways I spot them is by the way they write. They are not from the states and seem to have English as a second language and their punctuation is always off. Really bad scammers copy and paste letters so they don't always flow or make sense. They rarely ask questions bc they aren't interested in knowing your process other than if you'd accept their check.

Next time, don't bother with someone offering to pay by bank check and then saying they would make arrangements to pick up item when the check clears, either take them on a full tour and waste their time or report to Etsy. I'm betting they got booted with that new email bc someone reported them.

FWIW, one of my friends runs a talent agency. A scammer contacted him wanting to hire a model. Knowing this was a scammer, he offered his services and got hired for more than the agreed amount, for his trouble bc the scammer was going to send a check where the model fee, photographer fee, and studio fees would be included, plus a bit more. The "model" was to deposit the check and return whatever amount was not used after a $400 maintenance fee for the model's help. The owner, aka "model", was a middle aged man who is short and slightly overweight, told the scammer what he looked like and was still hired. The scammer would go a day or two without emailing and always have some drama happen... his mother got sick, child is hurt, was in an accident...etc... but was always gracious and throwing God's name around like he was religious. So my "model' friend told the scammer he was in a terrible accident and lost an arm and part of his leg. The scammer wanted to know if he could still work. lol The entire thing went on for a few weeks and was unbelievable. In the end, the scammer sent a check that looked very real and when my friend took it to the bank, they didn't catch it so he pointed out that it was fake (he never intended to deposit it). The scammer kept emailing the model relentlessly and when he was called out as a fake, started using God's name to curse my friend and telling him all sorts of bad things were going to happen to him. The reason my friend did all this is because he knew these scammers do this all day. They have a top person overseeing the operation and when the scammers get to where they need a check, it costs them money to make one and send it. So they are out some dollars. I'm sure it is nowhere near the amount they make scamming people, but it was a very small victory knowing the scammers had a taste of their own dealings. There used to be a great website where people that were objects of scammers sent in their stories of victory checks.

 

[ckrickett]

I thought it was, they havent responded yet, I am not sure if they will.

 

[ckrickett]

I'm pretty sure, like 99% sure, it is a scam.

One of the ways I spot them is by the way they write. They are not from the states and seem to have English as a second language and their punctuation is always off. Really bad scammers copy and paste letters so they don't always flow or make sense. They rarely ask questions bc they aren't interested in knowing your process other than if you'd accept their check.

Next time, don't bother with someone offering to pay by bank check and then saying they would make arrangements to pick up item when the check clears, either take them on a full tour and waste their time or report to Etsy. I'm betting they got booted with that new email bc someone reported them.

FWIW, one of my friends runs a talent agency. A scammer contacted him wanting to hire a model. Knowing this was a scammer, he offered his services and got hired for more than the agreed amount, for his trouble bc the scammer was going to send a check where the model fee, photographer fee, and studio fees would be included, plus a bit more. The "model" was to deposit the check and return whatever amount was not used after a $400 maintenance fee for the model's help. The owner, aka "model", was a middle aged man who is short and slightly overweight, told the scammer what he looked like and was still hired. The scammer would go a day or two without emailing and always have some drama happen... his mother got sick, child is hurt, was in an accident...etc... but was always gracious and throwing God's name around like he was religious. So my "model' friend told the scammer he was in a terrible accident and lost an arm and part of his leg. The scammer wanted to know if he could still work. lol The entire thing went on for a few weeks and was unbelievable. In the end, the scammer sent a check that looked very real and when my friend took it to the bank, they didn't catch it so he pointed out that it was fake (he never intended to deposit it). The scammer kept emailing the model relentlessly and when he was called out as a fake, started using God's name to curse my friend and telling him all sorts of bad things were going to happen to him. The reason my friend did all this is because he knew these scammers do this all day. They have a top person overseeing the operation and when the scammers get to where they need a check, it costs them money to make one and send it. So they are out some dollars. I'm sure it is nowhere near the amount they make scamming people, but it was a very small victory knowing the scammers had a taste of their own dealings. There used to be a great website where people that were objects of scammers sent in their stories of victory checks.

Victory checks!!!! I will have to see if I can find that website!

 

[Curly Celt]

Great story, amti!

 

[KAC]

we get hit weekly with scammers and fraud orders. Luckily they all have the same "smell" to them and they're quite easy to spot.

This one doesn't pass the smell test - I'd proceed with caution.

 

[JerseyPearl]

I absolutely agree...I get these as well as "it's for a charity donation" all the time.

 

[Katbran]

I agree - doesn't sound legitimate at all.

 

[ckrickett]

They never responded back to me at all after I sent that last email with the terms. So I am guessing it was definitely a scam! Thanks everyone

 

[BWeaves]

Thanks for the update. I was wondering what ever happened.