Bid4Assets...Good or not?

[Kitty]

I am looking at a few pieces on bid4assets and I was wondering if there were any bad reports about a company called AIG or American International Gemologists? There are several pieces with certifiates, but I do not want to get burned!
Thanx!

 

[Kitty]

Here is an example if you cannot find it. This are some of the pearls on auction.
Thanx!
http://www.bid4assets.com/auction/index.cfm?auctionid=194491
http://www.bid4assets.com/auction/index.cfm?auctionid=192173

http://www.aiglabs.com/

 

[jshepherd]

Do not do it, Kitty! Those appraisals are not worth the paper they are printed on.
I am not familiar with AIG, and I would not believe a word they said after looking at those appraisals. Those earrings, appraising over $1000, are only worth about $10. They are not round, and they have silver backs! After doing a little research on American International Gemologists this is what I have found.
I do not think the picture on their Website is an actual building. The only listing for this company is 21250 Califa Street, Suite 104. This is NOT in a building, but is a box rental.
Read this article:
http://www.badbusinessbureau.com/view.asp?id=83098&view=printer

I suggest, if you have already purchased anything from Biton's, you get a real appraisal done and file a report with the FCC. Those appraisals are signed, and they are claiming to be graduate gemologists, so you should contact the GIA as well.

 

[jshepherd]

Also, found this report on the BBB. The BBB is an organization nobody can argue wtih. They mention American International Gemologists by name!

If Shopping for Jewelry This Holiday Season - Know What You're Getting Your Hands On!
by Katie Mitzner/BBB Communications Director

They say diamonds are a girl's best friend, but a recent scam leaves consumers holidng a "diamond" that's worth about as much as a lump of coal.

The scam involves a traveling auction that made its way through Colorado Springs back in July. The auction was advertised in a local paper and took place at the Sheraton Colorado Springs. The company calling itself State Liquidation Services, Inc. out of Atlanta, Georgia claimed to be selling diamonds worth tens of thousands of dollars. This company even had, what appeared to be, a legitimate appraisal of the jewels. However, it turns out the appraisal was fraudulent and the diamond jewelry was worth only about 10% of what the auction house claims it was worth.

One local consumer purchased $66,000 worth of jewelry at the auction for about $8,000. A great deal, if only the jewelry was worth that much. When the consumer took the jewelry for a local appraisal he was informed that the jewelry was really costume jewelry and not worth more than $800.

The auction company State Liquidation Services, Inc. has an unsatisfactory record with the Better Business Bureau due to unanswered complaints. The appraisal company, American International Gemologists out of California currently has no record with the Bureau, however local appraisers say the appraisal this company gave for this jewelry is grossly inaccurate.

When the consumer contacted State Liquidation Services, Inc. for a refund he was informed that they would not entertain a refund due to “buyer’s remorse”.
When purchasing jewelry, the Better Business Bureau offers the following tips:
¨ use a reputable jeweler, get referrals from friends and family
¨ be an educated shopper, learn about the type of jewelry you are looking to buy BEFORE you buy it.
¨ when shopping for diamonds, understand the four C’s, cut, color, clarity and carat weight
¨ understand any warranties and guarantees
¨ know the difference between appraisal and certification. An appraisal is the estimate for the retail value for a stone or piece of jewelry, and a certificate includes the specifications of the individual gem (for example the four C’s)
To check out a jewelry dealer or company call the BBB at

719-636-1155 or 866-206-1800!

 

[Kenji]

I would like to point out something as well. One appraisal (for the black pearl freshwater set) they state that the pearls earrings are Biwa. This is not the case but they are freshwater pearls from China.
The black freshwater pearls as descibed are probably about $150 per kilo. With that size you can be received about 37 strands per kilo. In other words the pearls would cost about $4 per strand (farm wholesale). Wholesale in the USA maybe about $15-$20 each strand. I think the set as pictured (my humble opinion as I am Akoya expert not freshwater) cost about $9 to make in China or about $25 to make in the US if all clasps and findings are not gold but only silver.

The earrings...the pearls probably cost about $2 for the set and the silver less than one dollar as well. I think less than $5 to make the pair, or maybe $10-$15 in the US.

So if you divide the appraisals by about 100, I think you have a good wholesale prices. I am unsure how they determined such high prices in the first places.

 

[norman]

AIG Appraisal

AIG Appraisal

Hi Kitty;

Excellent Post!

I agree with you that as a consumer you should make as many inquiries, and ask as many questions as you can before making any purchase on-line or at the local mall.

One of our customers e-mailed us Jeremy's posting. The photograph on our website is indeed the photograph of our building. Why he said that it is not only he can answer. We have been working in that building since February 1993. We write gem & jewelry reports and appraisals for consumers and retailers throughout North America and around the world.

He tried to scare you by posting an old Better Business Bureau posting from 2004. The Better Business Bureau of Southern Colorado had a complaint about an auction company. The complaint was reviewed by the BBB and the State Atorney Generals office. No, charges where filed. You may call Katie Mitzner/BBB Communications Director at the BBB in Colorado @ 719-636-1155 or fax to 719-636-5078. She will confirm this. The BBB in Colorado removed this posting in early 2005. I am going to speak to the other website tommorow and share the same information with them. The posting also says that we are not listed at the BBB. We have been listed at the BBB in Los Angeles, since June 1999.

I just looked at both of the appraisals in question on bid-4-assets. I am going to speak to the auction in the morning and have what I see as errors corrected asap. I thank Jeremy for bringing this to our attention. We work very hard to produce reports and appraisals free from errors.

Kitty , If I can be of futher help please e-mail me.

Thanks

Norman Monteau
Laboratory Director
American International Gemologists

 

[Kitty]

Hello Norman,

Everything else aside, can you answer this question.

Is that your signature on the two appraisals I posted? I printed them both out and took them to a jeweler this morning after I received the response from JShepherd regarding the bogus valuations, and my jeweler confirmed everything that JShepherd said - he said they were over valuated to a point beyond his comprehension, and he said this is a violation of an FCC law.

So, although I have long since decided against purchasing those pearls on auction (thank God for this Website), I as a consumer still feel upset that i NEARLY purchased them.

So how can you run a lab, not post your physical address (yes, I checked the address too and saw that the previous post by JSHepherd was actually correct), and produce appraisals like that? I also know of Robbins Brothers as I hear their commercial saying they are the worlds largest engagement ring store, and I wonder about their product if these are the appraisals being used.

I guess I am a little upset, and I would like to know if you have a reasonable explanation. The appraisals on auction are obviously fraudulent, the BBB used the term 'fraudulent appraisals', and the guy from Bidz.com told a story that seems to fit...

 

[norman]

Appraisals

Appraisals

Hi Kitty;

Yes we did sign those appraisals. They are ours. And yes they are in error.
I will be speaking to the auction company tommorow, we will correct the appraisals. We do our very best to provide information that has a basis, and yes a mistake was made. Not anything else. I can only apoligise. This interchange that we are having on this thread and this website are a very valuble tool for both you and us. We as a company are very happy to be able make these posts.

About our address; your right it does not appear on the website. I thank you and Jeremy for bringing this to our attention. Our address should be on the website and it will be there in a few days. Just so you know, if you open one of the appraisal examples on the website you can see our address at the top of the appriaisal.

The BBB in Colorado made an error by making that statement in that posting. You cannot find that post on their website because they removed it last year.

Thanks to this thread we will be making some changes in our quality control department. I, like you, do not want to see reports or appraisals in the mall or on the internet that do not make sense.

Norman

 

[jshepherd]

Update on Biton's auctions and AIG. Mr. Monteau emailed me personally saying the appraisals were a mistake and they would be corrected. The auctions were also supposed to be removed. But...
http://www.bid4assets.com/auction/index.cfm?auctionid=198486

There they are again. Both Biton's and AIG know that this is fraud and they are still stealing from people. Gotta love those ethics!

 

[jshepherd]

Just thought I should call this out as I received an email from someone looking at an auction on "Bid 4 Assets". I guess Norman Monteau thought he could fool us, "fixing" those appraisals and taking down those auctions. But, they are at it again. Appraising a nearly worthless 5-6mm freshwater for $2000, and selling on the same Site by the same seller. Pearls are off-round, luster is only medium, pearls have spots, and the strand is unknotted. Basically a costume quality necklace.
http://www.bid4assets.com/auction/index.cfm?auctionid=232834

If you look at the appraisal it was signed by Mr. Monteau himself, in September, after he told all of us those other appraisals were mistakes. Not surprisingly those other appraisals are still being used as well - giving button freshwater pearl earrngs with silver backs a "certified" value of $1250.

If this upsets any of you as well, I suggest calling your local Robbins Brothers and letting them know you would never consider buying their jewelry. Apparently AIG prepares the appraisals for their chain.

I just looked at both of the appraisals in question on bid-4-assets. I am going to speak to the auction in the morning and have what I see as errors corrected asap. I thank Jeremy for bringing this to our attention. We work very hard to produce reports and appraisals free from errors.

This is a quote from more than 1/2 year ago. I am now quite certain that original BBB report got all the facts right. These guys are either grossly incompetent appraisers or just complete frauds. Then again I could be wrong...they very well may be both.

 

[Kitty]

I have actually found a reason to not buy from R.B. as well!
http://www.thediamondguy.com/diamond_education/ask/view_item.asp?ID=806

I am still sore over that whole thing. Thanks for saving me a lot of money and embarassment!

 

[National Pearl]

Ebay Pearls

Ebay Pearls

We have discovered so many auctions claiming AAAA pearls worth $20,000+ with a starting bid of 99 cents... While the pictures on some pearls are obvious frauds (especially when they try to pass of A quality freshwater for high quality akoya, lumps and gashed included!), some of the pictures look quite nice. We are bidding on some now to determine actual quality. As some of the Akoya pictures look quite lustrous, assuming that the pearls that arrive have similar appearance, I greatly suspect that polymer treatments may be in use in order to increase the luster, atleast temporarily. While such treatments are difficult to detect, we have the capability to detect such treatments and will be happy to share what we find. If in the unlikely event that the pearls are genuinely high quality, we will report that to, but I am not very confident that that will be the case given what we have witnesses thus far.

 

[Pearls_by_Angela_Carol]

These are the things that infuriate me to no end. Ultimately it the losers are customer who purchase from companies like this and honest retailers/dealers that are able to sell at discounted prices. People get burned, others read their stories, 'if it looks too good to be true' gets validation (rightfully) from the stories and it makes it extremely difficult for that customer to trust any company.

And misrepresentation of product is prevalent everywhere, not just on auctions sites. Sites claiming that there is a vast difference between Akoya pearls cultured in China vs in Japan (I suppose that a Nissan produced in Canton is inferior to one produced in Japan), sites claiming that if others do not use their grading system then they do not know what they are doing... and the list goes on - all of it covered in posts here in this forum.

There is one tactic that no one has touched on though. It has been hinted at, but not really discussed and it is really an issue: visual misrepresentation. Anyone that can open Photoshop can make their product look 100% better than it really is. Here is an example of what I am talking about. This is a segment of an Akoya necklace that I found that is listed to have a surface quality of AA.

Now, in looking at the grading scales used by almost all sites (whether it is AAAA or AAA or whether it is broken down in 3, 4, or 5 groups) AA surface quality should have about 15% of the surface blemished. I know that it is very difficult to have accurate images on the web. The hardest thing to do is represent luster, but surface quality should not be an issue. To me, these pearls seem to have no blemishing at all.

It almost makes me want to replace all the images on my site and use the ones directly out of the camera with no attempt to drop the grey background out.

Sorry for the long post, but this seemed like the appropriate thread to shed some light on another practice that preys on customers trust.

 

[Caitlin]

This outfit came up again today with a question about reselling this AIG certified stuff. https://www.pearl-guide.com/forum/showthread.php?t=695

Again, it appears we are seeing huge over-evaluations.

They still have not posted their address on their site so here it is:
21250 Califa Street suite 104 Woodland Hills CA 91367

 

[Zeide Erskine]

Hi Caitlin,

I saw the CFWCP pearl strands at Target, WalMart, K-Mart & the like, too, but I qualified my statement to strands that look SOMEWHAT BETTER THAN pissoir disinfectant. Those clearly did not meet that exaltet standard. Anyway, the 49 dollar strands were only 7-8mm, the 9-10mm were $149. That's for the PD-and-below standard in murkwood greux. Chalky white potatos were typically priced around US$300.00 in line with Macy's web special (http://www1.macys.com/catalog/produ...*24*-1*-1&kw=Pearl&LinkType=EverGreen&bhqs=1). Halfway lustrous, near round pink pearls of natural color are more an upscale item in California and you have to go to Gumps for something like that (http://www.gumpsbymail.com/jump.jsp?itemID=5318&itemType=PRODUCT&path=1,2,9,75,184&iProductID=5318). Those are actually pretty. If you are looking for decent pearls of natural pink color, prices are really high. Even in the white category of PD+ standard one can find real surprises. Just look athis 16-inch strand of medium-luster 7-8mm potato pearls with sterling-and-diamond-chip clasp; http://www.saksfifthavenue.com/main/ProductDetail.jsp?JSESSIONID=GrTpl21ZW9spW22s1QbvPmrmbRZYzLyjGyGQ29mPl7GyL9384lP4!1739479073&PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524445255275&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=282574492703280&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=1408474395222441&bmUID=1152061188550&ev19=1:7


Zeide

 

[Caitlin]

Hi Zeide
That last link only goes to their front page.

 

[Zeide Erskine]

Hi Caitlin,

Then you probably just have to go to the store front, click on jewelry & accessories, click on jewelry, click on David Yurman, click on pearls and voila - you get to see an amazingly mediocre 16-inch, 7-8mm, potato pearl strand with a sterling silver clasp for US$ 1,900.00 plus tax and shipping. I was thoroughly underwhelmed.

Zeide

 

[jerin]

Saks on Fifth Avenue

Saks on Fifth Avenue

I watched the link and got depressed when realizing that they sell Majorica and nowhere there is something mentioned about the pearls being fake. And the prices....

jerin

 

[Caitlin]

When I searched the site only the Majoricas turned up. I agree with you Inge.....

then today a friend passed me an ad for the Australian Golden Pearl Collection...........same thing- they talk about real south sea pearls and never actually say these are fake.

They have some hyperbole about "micro-seeds being extracted from fresh oyster shells and organically coated with the same nacre that coats naturally grown pearls". All they seem to be saying is that they aren't "naturally grown pearls! $300 for 12mm necklace!!!!

This was a full page ad in Newsweek.