Advice to keep a knotted pearl facing forward?

[SurfnSci]

Hi Everyone,

Apologies if I missed it and this is posted in another thread, but does anyone have any advice for keeping a knotted pearl facing a certain direction on a necklace? I have a pearl that has a lovely copper-y side, while the rest of it is blue-ish grey, and I would like the copper color to be visible/facing forward on the necklace when worn. It is the center pearl, and I have tried super tight knots and double knots and thicker Serafil thread, but it always rotates to the grey color when I wear it. Has anyone experienced this? I was wondering if a tiny drop of glue on each knot would be helpful? Or are there any other possible tricks?

Thank you so much for any and all advice!

 

[pattye]

Well, this is a challenging problem! Is this a large freshwater pearl? Is the copper color toward the top or bottom also? Or directly on the backside? Do you feel the pearl itself is drilled in a way that makes the pearl roll because the weight is uneven? Is it possible to add a photo of this pretty necklace, please? Might it be possible to add a bit of glue just inside each hole? The G-S Hypo cement glue that has a tiny metal tip might be a good choice and releases more easily than super glue types.

 

[SurfnSci]

pattye , thank you very much for your thoughts (and supplying me with Serafil, haha)! It's a well-drilled baroque ~10 mm SoC pearl from Druzy, so I am terrified of doing any possible damage to it. I does seem to have a small lump on the opposite face of the copper color (which is directly on the pearl face between the two drill holes), so I think the bump hits my sternum and rotates it when worn. I am going to try the G-S hypo glue as you suggested; I'd never heard of this in my newbie-ness, and I like that super tiny metal tip for application. Will try to post the finished product! Thank you again so much!!!

 

[BeadersSecret]

Hello Surfnsci, can you post a picture of the pearl and the necklace.

This would help in trying to understand the many variables in play, and what solutions might be valid.

 

[pearlescence]

Squirt some G S Hypo glue into the drill hole - not a deluge, just a dab. Jiggle the pearl into desired position and leave to dry. (remember to warn anyone re-knotting the strand as they will have to remove that length of silk by drilling it out probably)

 

[BeadersSecret]

If this sort of of scenario arrived on my bench, I would definitely not use glue of any sort. I can’t actually imagine using glue to "fix" a loose pearls position in a strand of pearls.

In addition to the practical Pro\Con aspects of using a glue - There also comes a disclosure element. Which could become a bit awkward telling the client that when it comes time for restringing, that the pearl in question would have to be drilled out to clear the glue that has been binding the thread. Or by not saying anything, its leaving a wee surprise for the next stringer and the owner. A technique like this can boomerang back as risk to your reputation - "oh you wont believe what that stringer did to a strand that I had to do - the customer\shop said it was XYZ stringer who handled it last time"


The main problem I see in other stringers work, is that the wrong gauge of thread has been used (not always) but a good whack of the time, also knot placement can affect how pearls sit too.


Thicker thread does not necessarily mean that this will stop the pearl from moving. I use finer gauge threads on pearls. I find using finer thread and in multiple strands thereof facilitates creation of knots that can sit closer, and which are more able to secure the hole of the pearl, and provide what I call "No End shake" ( a clock making term for where a part is secured between two ends with very little axial movement ).


Not all problems can be well described or resolved via a web forum, there can be many variables which are near impossible to adequately identify and address remotely. An experienced stringer can have many tricks and techniques up their sleeve, but using glue in an effort to prevent a pearl rotating on the thread I don't consider a good one

 

[pearlescence]

Removing jammed thread from a drill hole is part and parcel of re-stringing.

 

[pattye]

Very true, Wendy!

In the many years I've been stringing pearls professionally, removing stuck thread has happened only a few times.

Are we forgetting pearls are glued all the time into mountings? (And sometimes removed.)

Surf and Sci asked a specific question about her own creation for her own use. Nothing to do with disclosures, which is way off topic.

 

[BeadersSecret]

Sadly - indeed it is becoming more and more commonplace to encounter jammed thread, and it would be a sad day to additionally have it routine to encounter glued threads. Which is a totally avoidable situation caused by a stringer not using good technique.

Stringing like many specialised crafts has seen a decline in the numbers of skilled participants which came into the craft through direct hands on training and guidance, of a skilled practitioner. It was very common not so long ago for Stringers\Threaders to be part of a multi-generational family, with a collective shared knowledge in the skills & techniques involved.

In recent years anyone who had a passing interest in Jewellery and looking for, or pushed into a career change and decides that throwing few knots on a string either side of whatever semi spherical object being positioned after watching a YouTube video or two makes them a stringer - or a Carpenter\Luthier\Jeweller\Stone Setter etc.

The craft of stringing just as all skilled crafts does have an element or elements that can be book learned, but there is also a considerable amount of hand knowledge. Hand knowledge covers the elements which words alone just wont convey, its knowledge you need to directly experience to learn and in which the "master" would assist the trainee via instruction\guidance\explanation of what went wrong, or why a result didn't achieve what was anticipated. (The many variables I mentioned in my earlier post)

We all know there are almost always two or more ways to do something. Sometimes the "right way" in any group of possible options can be a subtle one that the craftsperson decides based on various factors - and a fairly universal parameter is pride in their work and reputation. Along with developing the basic skills of a craft, most trainees also develop a pride in their craft.

There are "Right Ways - "Wrong Ways" and "Shades of grey ways" of doing things and for me, the use of glue on the pearl\bead\thread in an effort to prevent rotation is a wrong and unnecessary way.

Regarding the off topic leap into glue and mountings - - that's an argument comparing Eggs with Oranges. Pearl\Metal bonding is a very different subject to securing a Pearl & Thread.

Pearl-Guide is a source of information for many people with interests in pearls - be it personal or professional. Posts\Threads stay alive on the internet for a long time. The advice to use glue is an advice I find concerning it is compounding one issue on top of a further issue.

Reaching for a bottle of glue is not the way to go. Thread selection, Knotting placement, Threading technique - and the customers body shape (Quote from OP: "so I think the bump hits my sternum and rotates it when worn" ) are all part of the picture and potential solutions for the stringer to use.

 

[pearlescence]

I've watched many people knotting pearls from all around the world. Everyone has their own method. Each method works for that person. I don't think that pearldom is much served by disparaging others, be they fellow professionals or amateurs.

 

[SurfnSci]

I am very grateful for everyone's comments and thoughts in helping to address my question! I now know there is a lot to think about going forward, after initially thinking it might be a simple answer, haha I really appreciate all of this information, and it is a privilege that an amateur pearl-enthusiast like myself can learn directly from experts in the field. Again, I thank you all!!!

 

[Pearl Dreams]

I posted this in my stringing tutorial; it helps me deal with some pearls that seem to want to face the wrong side out:

Some pearls have a definitely nicer front or back; some have flat backs. The drill hole may also not be exactly centered. Gravity will tend to make the pearl hang one way more than the other.
To encourage the pearl to hang with the nicer side facing out, string the pearl onto the thread and before knotting, hold the strand in the position you will be wearing it and give the pearl a little spin on the thread to see whether it stops with the good side facing out. If gravity is making it stop with the unattractive side facing out, slide the pearl back off the thread and put the needle into the other drill hole.

https://www.pearl-guide.com/forum/p...-beaders-secret-power-pro?p=146750#post146750

 

[Katbran]

Bernadette, you say that you use multiple fine threads when you knot . I'm not sure I've ever seem a video of multiple thread knotting ( more than two) and think it would be wonderful if you could do a short video for PGF on how to do this . The more expert videos (and I know we have a couple) we can collect the better educated we will all be.

 

[BeadersSecret]

It is somewhat regrettable to have seen disparagement and not encouragement to learn.

Restringing is a craft with much more depth than may be apparent to a casual glance. What at first seems like String + bead + knot = Job Done, Is barely the surface.

With that depth there are certainly a wide range of techniques and methods, which is exactly as it should be. Ascribing one technique as the sole possessor of ultimate correctness would be very narrow minded.

On the other side there are 'things' which if they are used or done - or not done when working on a piece. Can lead to a negative outcome either during the life of the item - or for a later stringer during maintenance.

Using glue on a pearl to bind it to the thread in an effort to prevent rotation of the pearl is one of those 'things' that in my experience are to be avoided.

As Pearl Dreams wrote - an uncentered hole can lead to an imbalance and tendency to hang in a way that isn't desired.
Thread selection, knot placement etc are key elements in this sort of scenario. And then there are also the influences whilst in wear to consider.
The solution needed to move forward can often be found in the steps behind.

Glues can be a blunt instrument - and for a stringer handling repairs, encountering glue where it shouldn't be is often the start of an unpleasant repair. Glue is to stringers what WD40 is to a clock or instrument repairer, My father was a clockmaker and if you want to poke the bear just ask how they feel about WD - you wont get to mention the 40 before the response begins.

Kathleen - the technique is essentially the same as for using two strands, only with double the opportunities for a strand to misbehave as you go along But having said that, you do need to be aware of the volume of thread your selecting and this is where some of the 'craft' comes into play. Assessing what size(s) of thread to prepare. It could be four or more, or less, strands of the same size or a combination of sizes to achieve the goal of the right 'bulk' for the holes, achieving the right 'look' of the knots, and appropriate for attaching any findings and fixtures in the piece.

 

[CortezPearls]

Good morning! This has become quite an interesting thread! Glad for all this input

I would have to agree with both pattye and @pearlesence in using glue to stop a bead from moving/rotating. We were taught this technique by excellent jewelers and it has never failed me. It is quick, easy, simple, cost-effective and effective.

But I also believe there is no better way to tackle a project like this one: there is one's own way. Here we can share our best "tips and tricks" but in no way I consider that there is a superior way...at least not until the person in charge of the project can actually work on the piece and emerge successfully. In this particular project, it all falls unto the realm of "virtual assistance" or the sharing of techniques, so we are here to SHARE these with others that would find them useful, but in no way is this a contest.

​​​​​​​Thank you!

 

[jshepherd]

I wouldn't be opposed to using a dab of glue to hold a pearl in place. I don't see an issue considering it's your own piece and not for resale. It would probably do the trick and keep the pearl aligned the way you want it. I don't see how a different method of knotting will keep the pearl from spinning otherwise.

 

[SurfnSci]

Thank you again so much for your advice, pattye, BeadersSecret, CortezPearls, pearlescence, Pearl Dreams and jshepherd!!! I was ready to go with the GS hypo cement when I thought maybe I could just put something in the drill hole to pad out the thread (since my gauge is currently limited by the drill hole size of other pearls on the strand). I have G.U.M proxabrushes which are basically tiny pipe cleaners for teeth, so I decided to try putting one in the unknotted end once I had the pearl orientation correct. I then cut it flush with the pearl and knotted the rest of the strand as usual... So far it has actually worked quite well to hold the pearl with the coppery side facing forward! I've worn it the last two days and any time I checked, it was facing how I wanted it. I'm not sure how long it will hold and I may eventually need the glue, but since I've been adding to the strand for the past 3 years, it's always a work in progress. I did a test run initially with just the pearl on a piece of thread with the proxabrush inside, and it came out easily with a little push from the tip of my reamer, so hopefully I can avoid a drill out until I'm happy with the final necklace.

(First pic is the blue face, second pic is the copper-y face I wanted to be visible)

 

[jshepherd]

That's some Pearlingenuity!

 

[CathyKeshi]

What a clever and beautiful solution, SurfnSci! No wonder you were so eager to have that pearl stay in that orientation ... well done

 

[SydK]

What a pretty strand and an ingenious solution