A thicker thread or multiple thin ones?

[lhwy]

Is one way better than the other in terms of carrying weight, stretching, aesthetics or any other reasons? Thanks.

 

[pattye]

Hi lhwy and welcome,

Hard to answer, each of us who strings pearls probably has a preference. But type of thread used probably makes more difference in how much stretching there is over time. Silk will eventually stretch, more quickly with heavier pearls. Synthetics, such as power pro, not so likely to stretch. Some knot more loosely than others, too; technique makes a difference.

I mostly work with 2 threads, but occasionally 4, to coordinate the pearl hole size with the color that best matches. Also sometimes use Griffin Brand, the single silk cord with needle attached.

Are you new to knotting? What kinds of projects are you working on?

 

[lhwy]

Yes, this is the first time I'm stringing my own pearls. I've been given about 80 inches of pearls by a person who farms pearls, so I thought I might have a go at it myself. I'm planning to use Griffin silk, as that's all I can find. I'm a bit worried about the stretching part since I'm planning to make it 36 inches, but they are only 6mm, so I think they might be fine on silk?

 

[pearlescence]

Hi
We use the silk cord with needle all the time and have had no problems . Usually I would use a size 4 for any but the smallest pearls (and a synthetic silk with needle for the really big ones or bracelets which get heavier wear)
When you say you have 80 inches and are planning to make it 36 inches I'm not following - do you mean a two or three strand necklace?
If you're worried about stretching you can hang the silk up to stretch it out before use, we used to but it didn't seem to make much difference, so now we don't bother.

 

[CLICLASP]

That's a pretty good concern.
I came to the conclusion that what it's important whether to choose 1 single or multi threads is mainly (not only, but...) a question of how big you wan the knots.
Besides, when it is a question of big beadstones (but not for pearls), I happen to mix silk and steel wire in one stringing.
A photo will prevent me from writing too much bad english, it is about letting customers choose stringing with visible or invisible knots:
and I strung the invisible knots with multi thin threads,
and visible knots for thicker thread.

 

[pattye]

Wow, Anna, that's a revelation! Silk and wire together!! A great idea, thank you so much! I have thought of mixing silk and synthetic, but not wire and silk. That you change the size of the knots at the customers' request, that is fascinating, too! Your English is just fine, so please don't be shy~

 

[lhwy]

I'm planing to make 2 endless strands of 30 and 36 inches, and leave the rest until something comes to mind,

Thanks Cliclasp, that's very helpful. I think I'd like my knots to be as invisible as they can. But if the knots are too small, is there a danger of the strand being too stiff?

Would mixing silk and synthetic make the knotting harder, since they have different flexibility?

I've seen some videos and also read in some of the posts here, that people pass the strung pearls instead of the thread through the loop. My understanding for this is to prevent tangling. What I don't understand is that when they are say, down to their last few pearls, they still pass the long part with strung pearls through the loop instead of some few inches of silk. What's the reason behind this?

 

[Caitlin]

The reason behind putting the strung pearls through the loop to the end is to keep all the knots going in the same direction. Some thread will get fuzzy when knotted the other direction in the middle. I have switched it out before, but it just isn't as Zen as keeping knotting in the same direction. I naturally do a kind of transfer of thread from left to right during the pass through when the string gets to be more than a dozen pearls or so. I have seen other people so it. I think Hisano did in her class last year. It is a very natural move, let your hands do it;don't over think it.

 

[Marianne]

When using beading wire and silk together, I have strung the beads on the wire first, then gone through each pearl with the silk and tied a half hitch around the wire. This gives a space and the illusion of a small knot. Strong, but not as supple as silk or cord alone. Good luck

 

[lisa c]

When I was was doing a knotting patch on a stretch where the strand had snapped, I found that knotting in the opposite direction to knots I'd already done made a permanent kink.

Also, an argument for restringing a whole necklace, not just patching it up - the silk just broke again, in a different spot. Probably would've been obvious to anyone experienced that this would happen.

 

[lhwy]

If the break wasn't due to a cut or some sort of accident, then I'd say it's probably a good idea to string the entire strand again since the whole strand would've experienced the same degree of wear and tear.

I am now trying to string on two threads, sometimes I would pull one of the threads and miss the other. I think I'll stick to one in the future, or try the "cheating method".

 

[pearlescence]

The single cord we use seems to sork pretty well and consistantly. We guarantee everything for a year and so far nothing has come back due to broken silk. That suits me fine. (dept of 'if system not broken fix not)

 

[Pearl Dreams]

Question for anyone who strung/knotted Jeremy's exotics from 2008 on silk: what size silk did you use?

I needed to restring my 8-9mm round exotics. These pearls have small holes! I preferred to use 2 threads and pull them apart to seat the knot, but all I could find locally was Griffin silk cord on the card, with attached wire. I bought Light Pink.

I tried size 3 (.50mm) but it would not pass through the end pearl twice, and I really didn't want to ream them out to widen the hole-- not these pearls! I am not taking chances on damaging them. So I went down to Griffin size 2 (.45mm), and that was okay for most of the pearls, but a few knots were slipping onto the drill hole and I had to double knot. There is not so great a difference between .45 and .50 but enough that neither size thread was quite right.

Normally when using a single thread, I use tweezers to seat the knot tightly against the pearl. But this time the tweezers were cutting through the thin silk thread, and I had to start over. So I switched to using a needle to anchor the knot in the manner shown in Wendy's "Knotting Pearls" YouTube video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hb5_xrWli_g) but no matter how I tried, the knots were still a bit loose when the necklace was done.

I'm at a loss for what to do next. I keep reading or hearing on videos that the most common size to use is Size E (.325mm) doubled, but that seems like it would be way too thick.

I found a source for silk on spools but size B (.203mm) doubled would be .406mm, (thinner than size 2 Griffin, so not thick enough to prevent knots from slipping into the drill holes) while size C would be .548 doubled-- too thick!

I must be missing something terribly obvious. Help?

 

[KarinK]

Hi,

I don't knot a lot so I always use the Griffin cards. Almost all the time I use a #1 with a #2. It works for all my pearls except the itty-bitty akoya kechis.

- Karin

 

[Marianne]

Hi Pearl Dreams, I feel for you as it is totally frustrating when you can't find the right thread. I think that the carded Griffin is a two ply and it seems to nick and snag much easier than the 3 ply Gudebrod silk. Unfortunately that company went out of business. Big Stone http://www.bigstoneinc.com/Big-Stone-Silk-Spools-c2030.html/page2 is carrying their own brand which should be similar to the Gudebrod. (I have not tried it yet, but plan on ordering in the future.) The E weight should work well with an 0.6-0.7 drill hole. Good luck!

 

[KarinK]

Hi,

I don't knot a lot so I always use the Griffin cards. Almost all the time I use a #1 with a #2. It works for all my pearls except the itty-bitty akoya kechis.

- Karin

 

[pearlescence]

Hi Pearl Dreams and KarinK
We use size 4 carded silk for just about everything. And enlarge the end pearls' holes to 1mm.
Pearl Dreams..sorry your knots were not tight-tight..that I suppose only comes with practice.. The knack is in adding the next pearl while sliding out the needle and thereby pushing the knot against the previous pearl. It is a bit multi-task and like patting your head while rubbing your stomach but it does work.
You could try getting hold of the carded nylon thread which has a slight stretch - if you heave on that as it goes through the pearl it will twang back tight against the pearl when the knot tightens - I have to be careful the other way when using that - since my fingers do tight with nylon the piece goes practically rigid if I don't remember to slack off a bit!
If it is any comfort I came across something I knotted years ago and to my present day eyes the knots look about half an inch away from the pearls and sliding everywhere. #embarassing

 

[Pearl Dreams]

Thanks for replies, ladies.

Wendy, I did push the next pearl on while slowly sliding the needle out but to no avail. Not sure practice would help me with that; maybe a thinner needle.

KarinK, do you then put 2 needles through, one with size 1 attached and another with size 2?

Marianne, I've been looking at the Ecru colored silk at Big Stone and debating whether to try buying a spool. Seems like E (the thinnest they have in Ecru) would be too thick to double and too thin to use on its own. They do have White in thinner sizes. I'd love to know what thickness Pearl Paradise's knotters used originally.

I didn't wax the thread, just ironed it with steam to stretch it before using it. I wonder if waxing would help? I may try that.
I may also use a very fine grit to smooth down the edges of the tweezers and go back to useing that method as it used to work for me. (I lost my tweezers and have been using my husband's and they seem sharper to me.)

I could probably get away with wearing it as is but I would know the gaps are there, and you can see them if you look:

 

[KarinK]

Pearl Dreams,

I use both needles. I pull the pearls all the way to the end of the strings - tightened on the card at first. That way I can fit more than one necklace/bracelet on one thread. I bet it's not the fastest way But I don't knot a lot, and it's cheaper than using two new cards for each project. After I tried the nylon thread from Griffin and couldn't tell the difference between the silk and the nylon, I use the nylon. That thread doesn't stretch at all.

- Karin

 

[pearlescence]

Yes. it does need to be a fairly fine needle too - you are using it to stop the knot closing until you want it to. I use a long fine darning needle (so much used it is now bent)
Knotting does need practice and the nice thing is that silk is relatively cheap
That knotting looks pretty good to me - I've seen much sloppy work come from professional knotters before now and yours looks pretty tight
If it is any comfort, I just this morning re-did a bracelet which had sold because the knotting (it had been in stock a while) was a bit slack.
It really is a matter of practice practice practice